Well, that's not exactly the kind of start I wanted to see. I guess I can't complain though. Global highlands will give you pretty fishy capitals half the time and I pushed fairly hard to finalize that as the setting.
I haven't had time to do any simming yet, but Byz probably will struggle on this start. The worker comes out fast enough with a plains hill + 2/2 tile that you can't get Agri and BW done by the time the two wheats are farmed. Guess I will probably pick America after all.
Capital will definitely be weak long term. Probably makes sense to build Moai there. If the map is watery having a strong shipbuilding base could be handy.
Scratch that. I missed Krill's post about avoiding naval civs. But America is still on the table. The capital would be good for farming great people if nothing else.
I decided to give Mao of Byzantine a roll anyway, building the start in worldbuilder on a Small Cylindrical Highlands map on Monarch (I assume this matches the settings), just to confirm my suspicions. But the timing isn't actually too bad. Going with the naive plan of worker first, Agri -> Mining -> BW, there's only three turns of waiting for the worker before he can chop. Maybe if hunting or fishing is mixed in some order, it would work out with no wasted turns. Or I could bite the bullet and build a road before chopping - given all the forests, it's not like the extra movement would be wasted moving the first settler out. The question is, is it really worth it to bother with that when I could be picking America and already be on the way to pottery in the same amount of time? Byz seems more fun to play to me, but is that worth it?
The uploaded screenshot is all I have for now ; I'll try out other tech paths and the other civs as I go. In the meantime, perhaps a lurker can say what the best way of hosting images is these days? Does the dropbox trick of appending that stuff at the end of the link still work?
In the same settings, Cathy of America has the fish hooked, both wheats farmed, and the worker ready to chop on t22, with some extra beakers in the wheel. I don't think there's any reason to go WB first here without the bonus to WB on RtR's expansive.
Cathy of sumer can go for fishing before BW, which leaves the worker with 5 turns of roading before BW comes in, even if the fish is hooked. If you go straight Mining -> BW, you can have a workboat done, and build the settler at size 3, turn 22, while the workboat waits as fishing is researched. Not too slow on the settler either since the ivory is 4foodhammers compared to five for the fish. But you do lose out on a bit of commerce.
I don't think Ethiopia/England and going BW first to chop chop makes much sense. Main thing you want to chop are IMP settlers, and Cathy pairs much better with other civs. And I'd rather play America than England, the bonuses come pretty late and are situational.
Some initial thoughts:
It wouldn't surprise me if that body of water is less than 20 tiles large, and thus won't allow shipbuilding
The two wheats are placed for optimum worker discomfort; starting with the wheel allows a free road on the tile SE of capital
The 2f2h ivory makes going workboat first more of an option, but only if we start with fishing (America or England)
SiP might not be a given here, I'd check the plainshill 2S2E before settling; there's also an option E
Capital is going to be very hammer focused, despite quite a few rivers
I haven't run any sims yet, but while America and England probably have the best techs for this start, I really wouldn't discount Sumeria or Byzantium. A double agriculture start is about as good as Byz can hope for, and the wheel is not a wasted early tech with those food placements. The rivers are slightly awkward for roadwork though.
Will see if I can get some sims in later to get a feel.
Just tested some sims where I forgot to make the water big enough, so it stayed as a lake. I think the key takeaway regardless is that there is no 3f tile to work before either the worker or workboat finishes, which in my mind makes a workboat first start stronger as you get a headstart on growing, but is it worth growing? Byzantium seems to really struggle with getting the necessary early techs in time, and will have to delay either fishing or bronze.
I'd prefer not to use imgur, I've been wary of that site ever since they were caught with malware embedded in the images.
I tried running WB first on both Byzantium and America and it just seems way slower. If you work the PH first then grow to size two, you can get the wheat farmed by turn 23 and then start chopping. Meanwhile worker first already has both wheats farmed and can chop. Working the forest ivory doesn't change the equation much. It might work if the fish was on a lake or there was more than one seafood, but it just seems inferior here.
Good catch on having the extra road on wheel starts.
My gut says that a workboat start is a red herring here, because there are no unimproved 3f tiles to grow onto. Yes, a 2f2h tile is good, but growing onto it won't feed the growth cycle in the same way, so a classic worker first is better. That devalues the need for fishing somewhat, but Mao of England is perhaps the strongest pick here (albeit boring). I still think Ramesses of Sumer would be fun, but it's also borderline variant play. Peter of America would also be good, but I'll happily follow along with whatever you pick. Byzantium really can't hope for a much better start than double agriculture though.
If one could expect that a Byzantium start wouldn't be better than this, I'm tempted to just go with Mao/Byzantium. That was the combo I was hoping to play, and the start is still pretty fast even with the tech restrictions. I'm hoping once the initial turns go by, the cheap granaries and trade routes will even out the couple of wasted early turns.
First thing to do will be to move the scouting unit east, to see if there's a better capital to be found by moving.
Is there anything else you'd recommend testing before locking the pick?
Byzantium is probably the slowest viable civ for this start, but since that was the one you were most eager to play, I'd go with it. Just be sure that England is one you'd rather sit out.
