[NO 73 PLAYERS] Lurkers Monitoring Variance

[Commodore]

We should definitely have a thread here to react to players' tech/start thinking, playing the minigame at home.

[Commodore]

First off, I'm going to be astonished if nobody finagles Gunpowder/France or Guilds/Arabia. SAM Infantry and Artty are scary, but cheaper resourceless 2-movers are horrifying.

[Krill]

Scooter is wrong because he has not thought the techs through with regard to Artillery and Rocketry, but not entirely wrong IMO.

Artillery is the more dangerous tech. It gives Artillery (unit), which makes that player impossible to attack into for a long, long time, but also AT inf, strength 14 and no other tech needs. They cost 120 hammers.

Henge can be built by turn 40, at the same cost as an AT inf. Add in a few roads, and a 5 player map can forseeably have that AT on someones doorstep pillaging tiles if not attacking by T50. Horse Archers are not going to be available at that point, unless someone chooses HBR as the free tech.

What techs can counter that? None of the corps techs. Biology will not have paid back enough unless it is an incredibly green map with lots of early commerce lux tiles. Banking/Merc and Constitution/Rep doesn't give commerce. Maybe Civil Service can do it?

But I don't think this matters, because even with one dead opponent, the other three players will then probably outscale the Artillery taker...but Artillery (units) can't be flanked by any available unit and catapults will just die to them, so no one can attack in with collateral damage! But what happens if one of those three players picked Rocketry, and what economic techs would the other two have? I have no clue and I want to see this game played out and not fail in the first 30 turns due to some stupid misunderstanding or mistake.

[Krill]

First off, I'm going to be astonished if nobody finagles Gunpowder/France or Guilds/Arabia. SAM Infantry and Artty are scary, but cheaper resourceless 2-movers are horrifying.

France/Gunpowder is good...but does it not invalidate the warrior as a build? It would be ridiculous if it did and then they died to a warrior rush.

Guilds/Arabia requires HBR to build so there is a significant delay in being able to reach then, France/Gunpowder is better and I think it counters Artillery quite well, but not sure if a Sam inf could be troubled by it?

[Commodore]

First off, I'm going to be astonished if nobody finagles Gunpowder/France or Guilds/Arabia. SAM Infantry and Artty are scary, but cheaper resourceless 2-movers are horrifying.

France/Gunpowder is good...but does not invalidate the warrior as a build. It would be ridiculous if it did and then they died to a warrior rush.

Guilds/Arabia requires HBR to build so there is a significant delay in being able to reach then, France/Gunpowder is better and I think it counters Artillery quite well, but not sure if a Sam inf could be troubled by it?

Ah, see, didn't recall they still took the HBR tech.

Musketeers on good terrain can at least *defend* against SAM infantry in mild numbers. Nothing upgrades into muskets specifically, so warriors aren't invalidated...I think Gunpowder/France would be my default, and I wouldn't actually ignore Ethiopia, Ottomans, or India with the tech too.

[Krill]

I checked and you are right, France with Gunpowder can build both warriors and musketeers.

Challenging way to play a snakepick though. What would you pick first? Gunpowder and then accept Ottomen as the backup?

[Commodore]

I checked and you are right, France with Gunpowder can build both warriors and musketeers.

Challenging way to play a snakepick though. What would you pick first? Gunpowder and then accept Ottomen as the backup?

That'd be my gut, just because picking France telegraphs way way too much otherwise.

[Krill]

Yeah I can see that making people reconsider everything if Gunpowder was the first pick. Just imagining someone picking Boudicca/Nationalism/Sumeria as the counter. But it's base BtS and so much of this just looks bad, OTOH the sheer whip capability has to count for something, just think of the EP!

[greenline]

I keep noticing players who forget that one of the last BtS patches nerfed Cristo Redentor so that it only gives you minimum anarchy turns for a swap instead of no anarchy.

[Mjmd]

I have to admit the only thing I had come up with prior to people posting thoughts was gunpowder France and go kill whomever I thought picked the best combo first. Again, if all other 4 go for a deep eco play there is a good chance 2/4 of the remainder get through, but ya Krill is right if its first pick what kind of domino effect does that have?