|
[SPOILERS]yuris125 looking for inspiration in Pitboss 73
|
|
I dismissed the idea of joining this game at first, as I didn't think I had an interesting idea for starting tech to take. But giving it some thought, and with sign-ups being slow, decided to give it a shot. Someone has to take a boring pick and be the fun police, after all
And when it comes to boring, the unfortunate truth is that I don't know how well this game's premise will work in MP, especially with an ancient start. Because I believe that for a shot of winning, everyone will have to take a military tech In my view, the baseline tech to consider is Rifling. Rifles are the best available low-requirement units (all subsequent infantry units have Rifling as one of the requirements), at 110h it is viable to triple-whip them, and they blow any defenders available before them out of the water. Don't take a military tech, and you can expect to defend against a stack of rifles with axes - with ancient start, you likely won't even have longbows before they come knocking There are techs which can be taken to counter rifles, which actually means that I think it would be beneficial to take a tech with a late pick, after I know what others have taken and what exactly I would be facing Other tech options include Military Science - grens would work just as well as rifles against ancient units, but do counter rifles Steel - cannon good unit. Does require Iron Working, but since you probably wouldn't start military build-up until expansion period is over, should be easy to pick it up before then Artillery - same as above, except artillery units are pricy at 150h, so building the stack will be more difficult. On the other hand, with this tech you also get access to 14-strength infantry unit in anti-tank. If you can REX and get enough cities capable of producing these, this tech is probably the ultimate trump card Railroad - basically would give up offensive aspirations, but machine guns should make you very difficult to break on defence. Pair it with something like Darius of India and try to force aggressive players elsewhere while you raid econ edge. Worth keeping in mind that the tech would not unlock actual railroads, which require coal or oil - it would be just for the unit Guilds - only if others decide to go for econ techs, and only paired with Byzantium, but I think cataphracts could get a chance to shine - if rifles and stronger units are not in play And that's all I have for now. Curious if others come to different conclusions, but think I will almost certainly end up with one of the above techs
A. Do rifles not also require gunpower?
B. Do they obsoletely warriors? If it's no/no then that makes a lot of sense. Any civ pairings you have particularly in mind?
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
Thanks Krill, confirm he's the cutest
(June 22nd, 2023, 11:14)Commodore Wrote: A. Do rifles not also require gunpower? Wow, suspected there was a game mechanic I wasn't considering. They do not require Gunpowder, but they do obsolete warriors and all other prior melee and archery units. Probably can be worked around by using chariots as temporary defenders until I can get rifles on defence (June 22nd, 2023, 11:14)Commodore Wrote: Any civ pairings you have particularly in mind? For civ - honestly, just the usual base BtS suspects: India if I get the chance, Inca for terraces if India is taken. Civ will probably be my first pick, as I expect competition for India to be fierce For leader - I think Fin's value is lower than usual, since the premise of the game is to take advantage of the tech we choose to start with. If I go with Rifling and can realise the game plan, I expect to end up with a large and likely underedeveloped empire, which makes me want to have Org to be able to pay for all those cities. I think Mehmed is my first choice for this game, with Washington as the fallback option. That said, if I see others grabbing military techs, I could well decide to go the Railroad route, in which case I will be looking to make do with whatever land I can grab peacefully. In this case, Fin jumps back up in value, and Pacal and Darius are back to being top picks I expect the pick order for me to be civ -> start -> tech / leader in some order, depending on how others order their picks 
Now that the game is happening and I'm actually thinking about it, starting to wonder if I should just go ahead and take Artillery if I get the chance
It was all so neat in my head, someone takes Rifling, then people start worrying about it and picking techs which counter rifles. But thinking about it, how does one counter Artillery? It's easy to overlook that it unlocks anti-tank, a niche unit which sees very limited amount of play in SP and never features in MP. But when it comes to this game and its very particular setup, it's very comparable to rifles: * same strength * 10h more expensive * much deeper into the tech tree (irrelevant for this game) * doesn't have the 25% bonus against mounted (irrelevant for this game, since mounted units past knights require 2 expensive techs, Gunpowder / Rifling + Military Tradition) * not draftable (irrelevant for this game) On the plus side, being a niche unit, anti-tank does not obsolete older ones, we still have access to warriors and archers for early defence So Artillery gives an 18 strength siege unit and a 14 strength infantry unit in a single package. I ask again, how does one counter it with a single tech? I guess someone can take Railroad, machine guns are effective against this. The problem is, the player with Railroad has no attacking capabilities - no one can attack them effectively, but they cannot get involved in ongoing wars either - if another player starts taking over the world, there's nothing Railroad player can do to stop them. The player with Artillery can just ignore them and attack everyone else Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I don't see another counter
Last pick is pretty bad for me, as I expect at least someone to come to similar conclusions regarding Artillery
If Artillery is taken by the time it gets to me, I think the play will be to take India and the best start, then with a later pick take a fast-expanding leader, Railroad for defence, and see how landgrab + economy fare against someone with immediate access to 18 power siege unit Who knows, maybe I overvalue military techs, and picking starting options which allow for fast early development and economy focus do offer a road to victory But I am fairly certain that pure econ techs (Biology, Communism, etc.) are a trap in MP. With an ancient start, you can't get by with archers / axes for defence (and I guess longbows by T70-80 if you beeline Feudalism) against someone with access to superior units from T1
And Artillery is gone first pick. Not surprised
Running the numbers, I'm thinking that cataphracts might be the answer, they actually trade decently well, both against artillery and against anti-tank (at least on flatland with no defensive bonuses, heh). They're the best 2-move unit we can get in this setup, and if we can't out-power another player, we can try to outmanoeuvre them Ideally I will need a Fin leader for this approach, as I would need to self-tech HBR and IW to unlock cataphracts, so currently thinking about taking the best start still on the table + leader (preferably Pacal) with my first pick, and gambling that I can get Byzantium + Guilds on the wheel |
