[No players] Big epic lurking - PB74

[Mjmd]

Dreylin Online
I'm still looking for through the lurker thread for the final map, but I do feel like our capitals were a notch closer than I had expected from the setup discussion...

Because uploads weren't working at the time I don't think I ever posted a final map. I can try to remember to do tonight. Min distance between capitals was 12 tiles, which was the distance between you and T/C. This is a distance I started mandating after Commodore once started people like 7-9 tiles apart. 

I will say Scooter was saying the map felt like it took a long time and I felt like it was rushed! I'll have to look if that horse was natural or if Q placed or if I did. Because they have 2 I suspect it was natural and I never gave it a second thought in my rush. I know I moved your copper closer from where it was (Q or natural), but with 19 starts I couldn't analyze all the possibilities as much as I would have wished.

[Dreylin]

Reading through Tarkeel's thread I totally see their rationale for the rush (although they haven't scouted North noticeably, so maybe they'd have found some great land to expand into there).

Also, I'm in no way intending to diss the mapmaking work you guys did - and it definitely is work - just noting that my own expectations were off. Things have changed a lot since I last played (CtH replacing RtR, events & Barbs coming back, etc.) and I didn't do any work to reground myself in the current meta - as evidenced by my fumbling commentary!

[Mjmd]

I don't think catching up on meta would have helped. No one has chariot rushed that way in a LONG time.

I do also think you were hurt by the pick method. Its a good method for this number of players, but while I LOVE Portugal, it wasn't good for your start. I don't blame you for taking mind; I liked the pick (I may be bias as stated) Fishing was just a dead tech you then had to work around. I suspect if you had started with any non myst / non fishing civ you would have held too.

[Mjmd]

So I don't mind Donovan going for Oracle, but he really should have done PRE writing. Sure he gets a lot out of HR so it isn't a complete waste, but still. I also don't know if I would give open borders to a neighbor this early. Hubab / Metal can just get sailing and get free benefit and Donovan can't since he he will be chasing Oracle. It also looks like he has 3 turns left on whip timer in both of his terrace cities and 0 plans to whip them on time.... waste. Unless I'm not reading right / don't know his full plan.

That Scooter 2 warriors vs 1 impi vodka says is a nice 13.6% chance to win. I wonder if he had a 3rd warrior coming up in case. Seems doable, but I could also just see him yoloing a 14% in that situation.

[Qgqqqqq]

@ Dreylin. Ya I would have let him run past towards capital and put the warriors in the northern forests in a city, which also would have let you upgrade in the city. The main thing was copper and if a couple early chariots went towards capital those warriors are best odds to defend and most pop to get a spear anyways.

@Q the dotmap picture was pre seeing Hubabi so that might change.

I don't think that's the case? He posted it after seeing him and mentions it as a block site.

@Dreylin, re Tarkeels North, take a look at Plemos thread for a nasty surprise they'll get at some stage

[Dreylin]

Yeah ... I'd probably better not post in that thread! 

[klops]

Base trade in Civ would have been interesting for lurkers
But I think its a good decision of plemo to call off the attack (based on his own observations and reasonings, seeing tarkeels thread, it seems that they don't have any defense left, so plemo probably could have been successful)
But 8 cities in turn 60 also sounds scary.

[Krill]

I'm sorry Dreylin. It's always a bit depressing to see a rush occur, but at least there wasn't any prolonged suffering.

I don't think you did anything seriously wrong. If anything, I believe the past several games have illustrated just how important pastures on a first row tech are.

[Mjmd]

I think pins request to not play turn exactly the same makes sense / is ok. To note bing had logged in the prior t51 so if he looked around he would have seen the warrior. That is main conundrum here is the information. Ie pin knows about spear and if game hadn't been reloaded bing would have had opportunity to know pin knew. I dont know how much bing looked around the prior t51 mind.

[Mjmd]

I'm actually more torn on this than I was this morning. Pin clearly was going to move that warrior there, but on the other hand he did play his turn quickly in the prior turn, so he shouldn't get a disadvantage from a reload.

Anyone else have thoughts? At minimum I think he should let Bing know "heh fyi I had a warrior at x location".