I googled "Civ4 medieval start strategy" and one of the top results was the thread for this game. So I'm winging it
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[SPOILERS] yuris125, pitboss 76
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Quick thoughts on picks, before seeing the map, or doing a test game:
* As pointed out in the tech thread, settler cost is 136 hammers with medieval start. It's not as dramatic of an increase as on later era starts, but it does boost IMP a fair amount. I expect most if not all players will want IMP * Cities come with granaries and lighthouses (in costal cities) prebuilt, dropping value of ORG and especially EXP * Prebuilt lighthouses boost FIN, as we get extra commerce on coastal tiles from the start. It's still weaker than base BtS of course, but if we all want a trait with short shelf life (IMP), a trait with some early value which comes into its own as cottages mature could be valuable * We can revolt to HR / Slavery / OR on T0, but SPI gets the option of swapping between Slavery, Serfdom, and Caste as needed, from the start of the game, and also can switch out of expensive OR into Paganism * There's also AGG. I will not underestimate AGG in a CtH game again So my initial thought is to pair IMP with FIN/AGG/SPI. Maybe PHI, although I wonder if having full knowledge of early techs completely closes the standard bulb paths For general strategy, I wonder how impactful knights are going to be in this game. Mobility is king in MP, as usual, but knights are 3 techs away from the start, whereas war elephants are available right away, and Engineering can be researched as the first tech. Feels like odds are skewed in favour of defenders in early medieval game, and if we see no wars until Steel, I won't be surprised I'm also aware that there's an option to go for the Music great artist from the start - but would need to see what can be done with one before considering this option - just keeping it in the back of my head for now With this in mind, musing about civ picks, I'm thinking of Germany or England. Of course, I could also take Byzantium again and give phracts another chance when it's not hampered by slow starting techs. And, well, there's always Vikings, who could be even stronger with prebuilt lighthouses. Finally if we expect the game to last long enough, Dutch can be a possibility, with levees completely unchanged in CtH (but how long would it take to reach Steam Power and build levees?)
Ok, think I figured it out. I was generating test games with random leaders, and I guess every one of them got either an EXP or an ORG leader. The actual base cost of a settler is 148h, reduced to 136 for EXP or ORG, and 124 for Mehmed. As I mentioned, I definitely saw the cost 132 once - will post if I manage to reproduce it
Also, I said Engineering was available to research right away, guess I was loading RTR instead of CTH - in CTH Engineering does require Machinery, which is not one of the starting techs
February 14th, 2024, 18:50
(This post was last modified: February 14th, 2024, 18:51 by yuris125.)
Thank you!
I'll be honest, I haven't done any testing yet, and now have even more thngs to consider. Starting with the fact that for non-Spi civs, SIP is very optional, since T0 is spent revolting anyway. With an ancient start, this would almost certainly be a no-brainer SIP, but medieval gives an opportunity to better split the resources. I also have to consider that the deer island will almost certainly want a city of its own That said, I don't see a better tile than the starting plains hill for the first city. A possible idea would be to settle 1 city S of the pig, and another north of the wheat (perhaps 2N on the plains hill). Problem with this plan is that it leaves the fish unworked for too long, which almost certainly works out badly in the long run. And I don't even necessarily want to prioritise settling the island anyway, it's likely safe backline, and ICTR income takes a few cities to become as powerful as it normally is. No, the fish has to be worked from the mainland - meaning unless I see something amazing in the fog, starting hill will be one of the first two cities. The other city will depend on what's in the fog - check the skills NW and NE of the scouts, probably use the second settler to scout either 2N of the wheat or 2N1W of the pig (hopefully there's no preplaced barb units which would make this kind of settler scouting dangerous), and decide from there The map also suggests substantial water, which means Fin remains high in my evaluation. I'm also starting to appreciate the value of Spi. Everyone gets their own religion, which they likely will want to adopt for OR value. With medieval start, I don't think early production will consist purely of settlers/workers and military units, we will want some infrastructure, libraries / forges / markets / etc. When exactly will be the optimal time to start building them, I'm not sure yet, but certainly before the first golden age. So Spi avoids the anarchy turn for religion switch, in addition to having the option to start in serfdom and not in slavery. Also, I expect Civil Service for Bureacracy to be a popular first tech to research, and that's another anarchy turn Spi saves. I think it will be a valuable trait even in the early game, but also retain value later I do need to test things, but early thought is to pair Spi with Fin or Agg, or Org if the settler discount proves too valuable to pass up on For the civ, early considerations are England, Germany, Dutch, Vikings. I also heard good things about CtH America, although never played with it. Russia could be in contention too? Also there's always India, which is not hampered by bad starting techs in this game? Very much still thinking
One more thought: Gandhi of Russia gives me Spi, discounted research institutes, easy access to great scientists to bulb Education and renaissance techs, and UU which remains relevant all the way to tanks (which the game probably won't reach). If his start is not too slow, that could be a combo to aim for
Scooter willingly taking last pick suggests he has already has a few specific combos in mind - this could be one of them Since this is a small game and I'm very uncertain on the best picks, I think I'll join him in choosing later pick in the draft. There will be an option I will happily pick regardless, and later pick has a better shot at a synergistic pairing
With a very unoptimised opening, Gandhi of Russia got to 4 cities on T25 and Civil Service on T38 (obviously estimates are inaccurate without knowing what's in the fog). Will try tomorrow how it compares with other combos, but gut feeling is that 12h discount ORG and EXP get on settlers is worth much. We have access to Math chops from the start, and 12h is less than half a chop. IMP could still be worth considering, depending on how much of a boost it gives?
Also noteworthy, if barb behaviour on medieval start is unchanged, they can enter borders as soon as someone settles the 3rd city, which could be as early as T20 Still trying to figure out the idea behind opening research with Music for the great artist, its first bulbs are the techs for remaining religions, Theology and Philosophy. Philo for early Pacifism could be a thought worth thinking about, but we would have to get Theology out of the way somehow first, and neither tech seems to offer as much snowball boost as Civil Service and Bureaucracy Oh, and also, when I made the sandbox map and loaded it, one of the first things I realised was that settling in place doesn't give me a good tile to work before the first border pop. That's a good enough reason to move the capital 1W, so that I can start improving the wheat right away. That, in turn, allows the second city to be S of the pigs. Two coastal cities let me split the difference between worker first in one and workboat first in the other, and this could well be a better start than pushing inland with the second city. They can also work together to grow cottages in the starting river valley. We do lose hill defence bonus, which could be painful later on. Not as straightforward as I thought, this initial settling decision |
