Pitboss Redundancy Discussion

[RefSteel]

Sounds good. I've never run a pitboss server on any machine before; do you know what I would need to do to test it? (I'll try to look into it myself in the next few days if I can....)

[Krill]

I've never hosted a pitboss game before either, so I'm learning as well.

My understanding, with the basic client (not sure if there is a modded one around?) is you just start the client and then complete each page as it comes up; the only bit I don't get is the smtp stuff for emails, which I think we don't need, and then all the networking at the end. I have never really understood port forwarding, a personal failure.

[RefSteel]

I've never hosted a pitboss game before either, so I'm learning as well.

My understanding, with the basic client (not sure if there is a modded one around?) is you just start the client and then complete each page as it comes up; the only bit I don't get is the smtp stuff for emails, which I think we don't need, and then all the networking at the end. I have never really understood port forwarding, a personal failure.

Okay, cool. So for a first super-simple proof of concept, I started a vanilla Civ4 Pitboss under Linux Mint, using Wine; then I started vanilla Civ4 itself, connected to the Pitboss game on my own machine, and successfully logged in, set my civ's password, and played a turn. Still have to make sure others can connect too, and set it up to run BtS, the various mods, and Ramk's tools, but at least it looks like a Pitboss server really can run on Linux anyway! (Plus test for stability, but my set-up remains a poor choice for testing that part.)

[scooter]

FYI I did PM Zulan a couple days ago asking about adding someone else to help with this, and I haven't heard back from him. It's not looking super optimistic at the moment.

I've never hosted a pitboss game before either, so I'm learning as well.

My understanding, with the basic client (not sure if there is a modded one around?) is you just start the client and then complete each page as it comes up; the only bit I don't get is the smtp stuff for emails, which I think we don't need, and then all the networking at the end. I have never really understood port forwarding, a personal failure.

Okay, cool. So for a first super-simple proof of concept, I started a vanilla Civ4 Pitboss under Linux Mint, using Wine; then I started vanilla Civ4 itself, connected to the Pitboss game on my own machine, and successfully logged in, set my civ's password, and played a turn. Still have to make sure others can connect too, and set it up to run BtS, the various mods, and Ramk's tools, but at least it looks like a Pitboss server really can run on Linux anyway! (Plus test for stability, but my set-up remains a poor choice for testing that part.)

Happy to be the tester in the future. Do you use Discord? If so ping me on there (I'm on the RB server), or else feel free to PM if/when you want an outside tester.


I'm really curious what kind of monthly bandwidth PB hosting uses. I have a monthly bandwidth cap which I regularly come somewhat close to, and I'm not clear what kind of impact that would have. I suspect not major, but I don't know for sure. Beyond that, I am pretty seriously considering putting together some sort of setup too, as I meet a lot of the other ideal host requirements. I don't have a machine laying around that would work, but a quick recent perusal of FB marketplace makes me think I could find one that would work for dirt cheap.

[RefSteel]

Happy to be the tester in the future. Do you use Discord? If so ping me on there (I'm on the RB server), or else feel free to PM if/when you want an outside tester.


I'm really curious what kind of monthly bandwidth PB hosting uses. I have a monthly bandwidth cap which I regularly come somewhat close to, and I'm not clear what kind of impact that would have. I suspect not major, but I don't know for sure. Beyond that, I am pretty seriously considering putting together some sort of setup too, as I meet a lot of the other ideal host requirements. I don't have a machine laying around that would work, but a quick recent perusal of FB marketplace makes me think I could find one that would work for dirt cheap.

Thanks, scooter! I've tested setting up a BtS pitboss game as well now, and that worked fine too; I'm going to look a little more closely at Ramk's server stuff later on, and try to set up a remote-connection test of whatever-I've-gotten-working tomorrow sometime. If so, I'll PM you. (I've tried using discord a couple of times, but I'm afraid it's very much not for me.)

[Krill]

Does the PB client require a graphics card be present, or integrated graphics of some description?

Edit: Wait, I just checked the Rmak/Zulan tech thread, it's been 10 years since they shut down Gamespy? That can't be right, it feels ilke it was only 3 years ago? Wait that was still in Covid lock down times. WTF. Is this what dementia feels like?

[scooter]

Does the PB client require a graphics card be present, or integrated graphics of some description?

My understanding is the answer is no. I could be wrong, of course. But I don't believe any graphical rendering happens on the host at all.

[superdeath]

it's been 10 years since they shut down Gamespy? That can't be right, it feels ilke it was only 3 years ago? Wait that was still in Covid lock down times. WTF. Is this what dementia feels like?

QOTM

[RefSteel]

I have a pitboss game running on my laptop now - just base BtS; getting complex mods to work looks like it will take more time and effort (or at least some of each when I've had more sleep). I PMed scooter, but if anyone else would like to try it, let me know.

[Zulan]

First of all, I truly hope Ramk is fine. And maybe, we will come back. Regardless, it is not great to have no redundancy and share of the work. I will try to support this one way or another. But I cannot offer any "SLA" whatsoever.

Okay, cool.  So for a first super-simple proof of concept, I started a vanilla Civ4 Pitboss under Linux Mint, using Wine; then I started vanilla Civ4 itself, connected to the Pitboss game on my own machine, and successfully logged in, set my civ's password, and played a turn.  Still have to make sure others can connect too, and set it up to run BtS, the various mods, and Ramk's tools, but at least it looks like a Pitboss server really can run on Linux anyway!  (Plus test for stability, but my set-up remains a poor choice for testing that part.)

Unfortunately continuously running a number of PB servers is quite a complex deal. Now we do have 10 years of experience, even though Ramk is the most knowledge person on this period. To mention the most important aspects:

• Civ4's network protocol is wonky to the extent that in some situations, connections are not terminated properly. This leads to the PB server blasting substantial packet rates to no-longer-connected clients indefinitely. This can cause huge amounts of unwanted traffic. We have pretty sophisticated infrastructure in place to mitigate this. This works on Linux systems, not sure if you can get it to run on Windows. https://github.com/civ4-mp/pb-watchdog
  
• The Pitboss server does in fact have a graphical interface, which was huge pain on headless servers. There are also sporadic errors that require graphical interactions, i.e., clicking "ok" on an error popup. Fortunately, we have recently containerized the workarounds. That doesn't mean it will just work as is. If you can understand what's happening here: https://github.com/civ4-mp/docker-civ4-pitboss-server - you could be very helpful!
  
• To allow multiple players to join often requires Nat Negotiation, which was shutdown with Gamespy. I run the NatNeg servers on the same server as the PB server, they are also used by the replacement Lobby. It is extremely unlikely that you can run a Natneg server at home internet connection. But you could run a PB on a different server and still use my Natneg server.
  
• Especially for larger PBs, to reduce login times, we implemented the side-loading of save games. This does require you to host a web-server in addition to the PB server on the same system
  

For moving further, I will take a closer look at the setup on the server and see what is needed to setup another game. Can I assume that you are going to use the same mod known as "RB74"?