[No players] Big epic lurking - PB74

[Amicalola]

Honestly should we give commodore a source of uranium. That is genuinely very unfair and easily fixable.

[Krill]

Re: Galley v DD, it took 199 galleys to destroy three Barb C1 DD (so functionally unpromoted) on coast.

Even at the end, when down to 3hp, the DD only take 8hp damage per hit from the galley and the galleys take three hits to die.

It's not even close.

[Mjmd]

Honestly should we give commodore a source of uranium. That is genuinely very unfair and easily fixable.

Without Ramk I'm not sure we can.

Honestly if by the time he can build nukes he hasn't taken the uranium in Tarkeel land it would only be because he likes Tarkeel not that he couldn't.

I will note again despite his complaints on how artificial the map is he has literally an almost unchanged area and it is the best land on the map.

[scooter]

It's hard for me to feel TOO sorry for Superdeath here. This attack was a very bad idea and enormously poor use of hammers, and it should have been totally forseeable that Gavagai would be unhappy, and he's navally like 3 generations ahead of him tech-wise. Gav is being totally rational here in wanting to manage his borders, especially as the current in-game favorite.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

There is a modern geopolitical parallel to what superdeath is doing, but that is best left for other threads.

[Krill]

I didn't hate his first attack on Plemo. It made sense to go after him at tech advantage so not to worry about later. The problem was all his production during that time period went to overseas colonies. I think the vast majority of those would have been there a few turns later if he had put literally like one or two more whip rounds into going after Plemo. Instead he tried doing both and just created a Plemo bent on dragging him down.

He does still have Kremlin and all those overseas colonies should be ready to start contributing.

I've been mulling over this point for a while, and I think there is a lot to consider.

One of the major points is that if Commodore didn't settle those islands how many would have gone to Gav? How much strategic depth would Commodore have given up by not settling them? Look at his land. Strategic depth is what Commodore lacks out of the big 4 and his only potential way to get it after the Bing conquest was to try and blindside Pindicator. Any movement up north, for all other reasons, does not improve his strategic depth. It feels to me that the Astrolands are critical to his survival, let alone potential victory. And he a few turns less development in getting population and drydocks up means fewer DD now (might even have lost him the big island), and this is probably his last time where he will have an advantage over Gav.

Gav, on the other hand, just has to play a holding game at sea and get to tanks, then he rolls over Piccadily, SD, Plem and just rolls around the continent like the Behomoth that civ is. He doesn't need to attack Pindi, Commodore or Ginger/MIg to actually get to a point where he has an unassailable position except in true dog pile, and no true dog piles exist. Get around to Plemo, stop and keep Tarkeel as a buffer state (OB or death) and he has more than enough to win via SS.

Now, if Gav also had all that Astro land, I imagine he could push on for a Domination victory even more easily than he could now, whilst having even more disposable land to throw at Commodore right now (in the DD standoff). OTOH, Commodore can force Gav to defend his mainland coast (and it's not fantastically developed) because he holds those islands.

All this to say I think the only way that Commodore or Pindicator had a good chance of winning was consolidating their bulb, like Gav managed to with the west side.

I still think this that there is a lot of work to do to take this game from Gav. Probably too much

[scooter]

All this to say I think the only way that Commodore or Pindicator had a good chance of winning was consolidating their bulb, like Gav managed to with the west side.

Couldn't they have also all split Civac/Tarkeel? I guess the geography is awkward. But it feels like it was never really under consideration, but it seems like that's because Commodore was so hyper-fixated on Plemo that working with Plemo never really occurred to him even though it likely would have served him well. Maybe in that world Plemo serves as a proper counterweight to Gav in that part of the world.

[Zed-F]

All this to say I think the only way that Commodore or Pindicator had a good chance of winning was consolidating their bulb, like Gav managed to with the west side.

Couldn't they have also all split Civac/Tarkeel? I guess the geography is awkward. But it feels like it was never really under consideration, but it seems like that's because Commodore was so hyper-fixated on Plemo that working with Plemo never really occurred to him even though it likely would have served him well. Maybe in that world Plemo serves as a proper counterweight to Gav in that part of the world.

This likely requires Plemo not to have burned all possibility of working with Comm by being prompt and attentive regarding the turn timer, potentially even if it means not putting in exquisite attention to every detail during play. I imagine a lot of things might have gone differently in that world.

[Amicalola]

Sorry but the burnt relationship is squarely on Comm, not plemo. You can be furious st someones action irl or in other games, but don't have to let that impact your decisions in game.

I'm not saying Comm was wrong to be annoyed, but I am definitely saying it would be wrong to call it plemos fault that Comm attacked him.

[Krill]

Sorry but the burnt relationship is squarely on Comm, not plemo. You can be furious st someones action irl or in other games, but don't have to let that impact your decisions in game.

I'm not saying Comm was wrong to be annoyed, but I am definitely saying it would be wrong to call it plemos fault that Comm attacked him.

That's just plain wrong.