High Barrier to Entry

[Gavagai]

I never ever use spreadsheets or anything more than "rule of thumb" micro. Still able to do quite well in games at least some of the time and when I do poorly it is usually due to bad strategic decisions, not due to suboptimal micro. The utility of spreadsheets is vastly overrated IMHO.

[The Black Sword]

I've never used spreadsheets specifically, but I do break out some paper calculations for important wonders. I love simming out in the early game but that's when the time commitment is smallest and I stop whenever I feel that burden getting too much.

I agree with Scooter in that big games are the ones I can't handle. When I played PB18 I was in college and could handle it to an extent, but any big games I've been involved in since then have resulted in IRL issues. But one normal sized game at a time is in general fine for me.

Q5 is probably not aimed at me, but the few games where I have been knocked out of the running early have been some of the most fun for me. In general I try to keep getting myself back into contention for as long as possible and if that's really not possible then spike whoever ruined my game.

[Krill]

I'm going to approach this from a different angle, and whilst I'll go around the houses a little, I will get back to answer the questions.

Civ is often described as a 4X game: Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate. The concepts are described in a linear fashion, because that is a restriction of the language, but I think that's wrong: the first three concepts happen at the same time and the fourth concept isn't real, simply an acknowledgement that the game exists within another space namely real life. The game ends via a victory condition, real life carries on.

Every single time I've heard this model used, I've seen it defined in terms of the map, but the map is simply information presented visually, and there is far more information than the map. Information provided ingame: Demographics, charts, the great people screen in civ 6 etc; other information is available by inference between turns (the fabled cloak and dagger analysis). Yet more information is available simply by noting when players play their turns and how long they take. Exploration really refers to all the information gathering processes that are available and using it to make decisions. If you aren't seeking out information you really aren't doing much different than an AI.

Expansion isn't just about spreading accross the map, setting cities. It's about spreading influence, and gaining control, but control flows from a player, not the civ. Find out what your opponents are doing, try to understand what they are thinking. An exploratory push here, see the reaction, adjust accordingly. Ultimately it's about using the information gained to get every other player to do what you want them to do, preferably without them realising it.

Exploitation: This is the bit where spreadsheets come into play: people think about maximising the small outputs of a civ from the available inputs, to have a bigger stack when the next war starts, but that's not the point. Ultimately it's about using the information gained previously to get every other player to do what you want them to do, preferably without them realising it. Every minute spent looking at a spreadsheet is a minute a player doesn't have their head up, and it's an opportunity to push them to play however you want them to. In essence, spreadsheets are a blindfold with pretty pictures on them: it's a dream, not a reality. Play the person correctly, and their stack never turns up.


So onto the questions:

1. It's a "Most of you" problem IMO. Spreadsheets should never be more than a notepad to scribble on.
   
   
2. IMO the level of play has fallen through the floor since 2014, partly because most of the new players don't actually get how to play MP.
   
   
3. Empathy maximising exercises, playing games other than civ 4, and I stress this: play games with no aids. Just play.
   3a) Time isn't the issue, self control is. Personally I believe the best model to use is one related to addiction: and the only way to control addiction is via internal processes of hte individual, no one else can manage your addiction.
   
   
4. The community has changed since 2009, but that's personal growth. Back in 2010 I think most players could be described as much younger, and far more aggressive. I like to think that most of us have matured since then, but frankly most of us just have less time with 15 years of career growth and families, and other responsibilities, and you can see how this feeds back into the previous point.
   
   
5. Probably not aimed at me...
   
   
6. It's a game. If I care more about what happens in PB80 than I care about the £12,000,000 budget and c.400 patients I'm responsible for I shouldn't be doing my job or playing that game. If someone else wants to spend 12 hours a day playing the game and I can put together an average of onr hour over two games, that's fine. That just gives me a greater opportunity to infiltrate their thinking.

[darrelljs]

IMO the level of play has fallen through the floor since 2014

Hey, that's the year I quit!

Darrell

[Commodore]

My perspective is pretty useless for you, because I never find playing fast much of an issue.

For what it's worth, I've really enjoyed your games/reports Amica, I hope you can find a balance that lets you play.

[BING_XI_LAO]

Personally I just speedplay and lose. And yes, that is a cope, because my real problem is a lack of skill, not time.
I enjoy the games anyway.

[Fintourist]

I'm late to the party, many interesting comments here. Here are a couple of personal thoughts on the topic:

• Significant time requirement is definitely the main reason why I haven't joined any games in a while. There are more things requiring my time today vs. 10 years ago.
  
• Spending quite a bit of time and having fun (and even spreadsheets) go hand in hand. Civ is a strategy game, where you try to come up with clever plans and figure out smart solutions for your challenges. Just throwing together a crappy plan or moving units mindlessly is not really that exciting.
  
• Of course winning is also more fun than losing, and spending time helps with that, no doubt. Still, even if winning turns out to be certain or impossible, I want to put in a decent effort just because I would like to play well. 
  
• Spreadsheets, playing in a sandbox or any sort of analysis is to me a bit like solving a sudoku - quite fun to a certain extent. Back in PB18 I built a fairly simple (but probably somewhat original) spreadsheet that forecasted our spaceship launch date almost 100 turns in advance. That was somewhat useful for understanding the big picture, but I would not have done it unless it hadn't been enjoyable.
  

I guess everyone has to find their own balance with regards to how much planning one needs to do in order to enjoy a game. Personally, I did heavy C&D in my first PBEM and it was fun once - but I do not need to do that again. I will definitely want to sandbox/micro my start, but I will stop somewhere between turns 50 and 100 where I do not enjoy it anymore and neighbors start ruining my plans every second turn. Later I might still be motivated to do a careful plan for a wonder, golden age or an attack.

The more experienced/better you are, the faster you also come up with a serviceable plan. You do not anymore need to teach yourself how to reap the benefits from a fresh granary. You also recognize better what are the areas where it's beneficial to spend time. Personally, I've never enjoyed too much playing against AI and do not have as many RB games under my belt as some players here, so I lack some volume. Therefore I feel that I can definitely build on my previous learnings, but I also can't do too many shortcuts if I want to play really well. 

So, what if you have (1) never spent the time learning the details, (2) do not want to do careful planning, but (3) want to win? That's a tough combo and you probably should try to find games with easier opponents/like-minded players.   However, if you can drop out one of those three, you probably will enjoy RB games..

[Magic Science]

Interesting thread.

[*] IMO the level of play has fallen through the floor since 2014, partly because most of the new players don't actually get how to play MP.

[*]What happened in 2014?

[Krill]

Most people got lives.

[scooter]

I would also say a bunch of the best players I've ever seen and a bunch of Tier 2 players who were constant threats to win were all playing back then, and many no longer are.