Crusader Kings 3

[Jowy]

The game is out! Who has it? How is it?!

And when is our first SG or MP session!

[pindicator]

I was going to hold off on buying it but if we do a SG or MP session then I might have to pick it up soon!

[AdrienIer]

Bought it, launched it for an hour, will play when I have time (ie not now, not in the next few days), but definitely interested in doing CK stuff here !

[Gustaran]

Ah, great thread, I was hoping for some insight.

My question: Do you guys feel Crusader Kings 3 is easier to learn for beginners than Crusader Kings 2?
I have always been intrigued by the CK series, but it does have a certain reputation for being very complicated with a rather shallow tutorial.

I do remember that I got CK2 on sale a few years ago, watched 5 hours of beginner video tutorials and still felt like I didn't know a thing about the game...

[NobleHelium]

I think Crusader Kings is less complicated than Europa Universalis.

Edit: I think both are of comparable complexity of Civ4. Civ4 is more accessible I guess? But I learned the basic mechanics of the Paradox grand strategy games in EU3 a very long time ago so I can't really tell.

[haphazard1]

I would like to see some CK discussion here, especially if anyone familiar with the game could help beginners get an idea of how to play. Similar to Gustaran, I picked up CK2 a while ago and gave it a try, tried to find info online, and just ended up bouncing off it rather hard. The tutorial was very little help.

Maybe the game is similar in overall complexity to Civ4, but I have been playing the Civ series since the first one. I have never managed to get into any of the Paradox games. Tons of people enjoy them, so I would like to get into them and see what all the talk is about, but the initial curve is more like a cliff face.

[Cyneheard]

I would like to see some CK discussion here, especially if anyone familiar with the game could help beginners get an idea of how to play. Similar to Gustaran, I picked up CK2 a while ago and gave it a try, tried to find info online, and just ended up bouncing off it rather hard. The tutorial was very little help.

Maybe the game is similar in overall complexity to Civ4, but I have been playing the Civ series since the first one. I have never managed to get into any of the Paradox games. Tons of people enjoy them, so I would like to get into them and see what all the talk is about, but the initial curve is more like a cliff face.

Yeah, I can see the tutorial not being the most helpful. I have a little over 550 hours of CKII, but I'd dabbled in Paradox games before (one of the Hearts of Iron - 2 I think?, and there was some EU and Victoria in the midst of all that too). They're also not short games - a long CIV SP game is, what, 6-10 hours, if you're not trying to play at the highest level? 

CKII is both a personal game - where your character is heavily playing the marriage/claims game - and a conquest game where you've got to fight the AIs in wars. I found the personal part really rewarding because the AI setup is surprisingly well-executed. It also encourages some level of role-play/roll with it - you can try to minmax and play through it as a game, or you can be the King/Duke/whatever trying to push their stuff where possible, or a mix of both. The game does a pretty good job of creating interesting scenes or moments, but they're not full stories. If you start as one of the larger rulers in your immediate area, and don't have an event-driven war immediately under way, the game isn't exactly difficult. Especially if you pay attention to avoid dishonorable things - no, you don't revoke your vassals' land without a good reason because that tyranny will catch up to you. I've felt one of its biggest weaknesses is that, because the AI is bad at combat, it's not that hard to win that aspect of it if you're not massively outnumbered, but that's nothing new in grand strategy games.


Examples of the game at its best: I was playing as the Scottish Emperor of what was at the time Great Britain, some of northern France, and some of the Benelux states. Pope calls a Crusade, I ignore it, and then my vassal King of England (no he was not named Richard) ended up winning the Third Crusade (the First and Second Crusades I DID care about, because they were in the west - one was for France because the King of France married a Muslim woman and converted. Pure AI    ). So now my lands included Jerusalem, and the Muslim world decided to counter-attack with a jihad on Jerusalem. And I couldn't just LET that opportunity disappear, so much of the next hundred years' military focus was about the Holy Land, and slowly (or through more Crusades) growing those domains without ignoring my gradual (and sometimes abrupt) expansions in the west. The marriage game for that one had some fun moments, some of which were luck + planning ahead + more luck; Hispania/Aquitaine and Italy had married each other, and their only child was a daughter who I'd betrothed to a dynasty member because, hey, this might work? Well my dynast's son ended up taking over at least Aquitaine, but then got kicked out in a rebellion, and he ended up in my court because, hey, why not? As an Emperor, I can have a King that's my vassal, so it felt like the most realistic thing ever for me to say "yes, sure, I'll HAPPILY restore your throne, but under one condition - that you swear allegiance to me as Emperor."

I've not looked at CKIII at all. PDX games tend to need some seasoning on release so I'm more than happy to wait, but I COULD be talked into messing around if we get an interesting idea going.

[Jowy]

Sounds like some type of introductory game is in order. A good excuse for me to get the game earlier than I intended. I'm thinking an open SG where anyone can claim it next.

One very important thing I'd like to mention is that there is no victory condition in CK3. You set your own goals. That's why imo the game is fun to play even when playing "badly".

[haphazard1]

What sort of start would people recommend for a beginner? I felt rather overwhelmed with everything that needed to be handled; you are dropped into an existing situation as a ruler rather than starting small and growing as happens in a Civ game. Is there a good way to limit the complexity a bit until you have a better grasp on the basics?

[Jowy]

What sort of start would people recommend for a beginner? I felt rather overwhelmed with everything that needed to be handled; you are dropped into an existing situation as a ruler rather than starting small and growing as happens in a Civ game. Is there a good way to limit the complexity a bit until you have a better grasp on the basics?

Ireland is known as the "newbie island". Have uniting Ireland as your end game goal.