The T170+ Attack on RB thread

[Cornflakes]

Tested collateral against rifles. I don't know how to translate power to HP (or how to read HP from the interface), but barrage definitely does make a difference.

No Barrage ... 1 hit = 13.2
Barrage ... 1 hit = 13.0
Barrage II ... 1 hit = 12.7

[Cornflakes]

So by that formula, barrage one doesn't do anything for catapults against knights- they still do 7 damage either way. It does let them do an extra point of damage against muskets, though.

I just tested vs. knights

No Barrage ... 1 hit = 9.3
Barrage ... 1 hit = 9.2
Barrage II ... 1 hit = 9.0

And muskets

No Barrage ... 1 hit = 8.4
Barrage ... 1 hit = 8.3
Barrage II ... 1 hit = 8.1

[Old Harry]

I just tested in game and I get:

Unpromoted cat - Rifle at 94
barrage 1 cat - Rifle at 93
barrage 2 cat - Rifle at 91
barrage 3 cat - Rifle at 88

Which is the same as Cornflakes (just bring up the fight odds against an injured unit and it gives you the hit points.)

[Zargon]

Huh. Looks like my source is wrong, or perhaps it was for base Civ 4 instead of bts.

[Ubercannon]

Maybe the formula should be using the base strength of the siege, and then multiplying by the barrage multiplier before flooring it? Rather than using base strength*barrage multiplier for the A value. Doing it that way seems to match the in game results.

[T-hawk]

Yeah, make sure you're using updated information. Somewhere along the line, the collateral formula was changed for precisely that reason, that Barrage I did nothing for catapults because the entire bonus got lost to truncation. Barrage now modifies the damage done, not the strength that goes into the damage calculation.

[Zargon]

Final substantial contribution before I'm gone for 10 days or so. I redid the odds table vs rifles with extra rows to account for some barrage 2 cats taking 9 hp instead of just 6 hp increments. I dropped C1 muskets because we don't have any, and added C2 knights because we have those. I don't think we have any plain knights left, but if we do, they have the same odds as plain maces.

Rfile HP	Mace	C1 Mace	Musket	C1 Pinch Musket	C1 Knight	C2 Knight	C1 Pinch Knight
100	3.2%	4.5%	8.9%	30%	4.5%	11%	24%
94	4.0%	17%	18%	46%	17%	21%	27%
91	4.5%	18%	19%	48%	18%	22%	29%
88	9.2%	20%	21%	50%	20%	24%	43%
85	10%	21%	22%	52%	21%	37%	45%
82	11%	23%	24%	55%	23%	39%	47%
79	31%	36%	38%	57%	36%	41%	50%
76	33%	39%	40%	81%	39%	44%	52%
73	35%	41%	42%	83%	41%	46%	68%
70	38%	43%	45%	85%	43%	49%	70%

Breakpoints in red. Maces @31% is a double breakpoint, and so are C1 Maces & Knights at 17%. It's unfortunate that so much of our stuff has breakpoints at the same places, so there isn't a lot of comparative advantage to exploit, except with knights, who we'd rather keep out of this fight.

[NobleHelium]

EDIT: I never tried to implement collateral damage, mounted units' withdrawal, or the catapult's retreat system.

Siege withdrawal should be easy to do - I think they withdraw when they are due to do a round of damage that would take the defender past the damage cap. So chance to withdraw should be the cumulative chance to do more than 75% damage on an equivalent normal attack.

And mounted withdrawal is even easier, the mounted unit rolls for withdraw when they are about to be killed, and it's just the stated percentage chance at that point.