[SPOILERS] Krill smokes some weed - PBEM50

[Krill]

Is knowing exactly how many of a smaller number better than getting an uncertain larger number? (Actually is my assumption wrong - do you know if you get more readers there than you would here?)

I read and enjoyed your PB5 reports, but I didn't really like the way the blog was laid out, its hard to refer back to older posts like you can here, so it can get a bit hard to follow.

What I intend to do is to use one of the posts on the first page to link to every turn report.

I haven't read your blog yet, but I really hope you don't follow your previous report style of just posting a screenshot of every god damned city every god damned turn. That really doesn't give much information. It was hard to even keep track of where each city was relative to every other city. Overview screenshots with more information on plans and detail on tactics is much better, and without a billion useless city screenshots that are 90% of the same from turn to turn (and often captioned by "boring"), it's a lot easier to keep track of the actual useful information.

Not that you're likely to listen to any of that, but at least I tried.

You think giving the same overview screenshot every single turn, plus the same plan, is good reporting? And labelling all 50+ workers in each screenshot? That would make each screenshot unreadable. In each game I'm intending to report on from now on I'm going to focus on different topics, and in PB5 it was city management so that's what got posted. Worker pictures of workers don't matter if you can see the change in tile improvements turn by turn.

That said, I'm not going to be posting that many screenshots, partly because I don't expect to have more than 8 cities for most of the game. Most of the early game is going to be about scouting, sentry nets and posturing, with most of the mid game being about trying to hold my borders, and the late game won't happen cos it'll be a concession like all PBEMs.

[NobleHelium]

I'm not saying you should be reporting the same plan every turn. If it's the same thing then obviously you don't need to repeat yourself just like you don't need to repeat yourself in the city screenshots.

[NobleHelium]

And what does the successfulness of the PBs have to do with anything? It's not like the mod has some quality that makes people less likely to get pissed off at each other or behave in a ridiculous manner like completely ignoring the spirit of the rules. The new PBs are played under AI diplo, and they don't have Lord Parkin in them. That is the difference.

Success can define numerous values, in this instance I'm using it to mean the following: That the games last beyond 150 turns without 1 player being an obvious runaway. I know that a lot of players appreciate not having to play games that are already effectively lost, because it's viewed as wasted time. PBs 5 and 8 (have) lasted a significant length of time whilst providing fresh game play challenges for the majority of players. PB8 map for instance took 4 hours to find, constantly regenerating maps, and would still have been unplayable using base BtS. The fact that players wish to play on different map types, with additional randomness, and enjoy doing with the mod but do not want to do it with base BtS is measure of the success.

Note I'm not saying that the mod is the best thing since sliced bread, or that it is perfect. I'm saying that it fulfils a niche for a segment of the player base. I personally do not care that not everyone appreciates that niche, nor do I have any reason to, but so long as the niche is still wanted there is no reason to alter the mod to meet other players wishes.

Well previously you were saying that the prior PBs collapsed in ignominy and masochism. I focused on the ignominy part and didn't realize masochism meant playing a lost game. Let's take a look then.

1) PB1: Surprise winner in Munro. No ignominy as far as I know (I haven't read the threads), you can say there was a short period of masochism of ten turns or whatever after Mason went down. Obviously not a valid case.
2) PB2: Nobody knew how to play by modern standards besides Spulla, so the game was lost before it started. What does that have to do with whether it was vanilla BTS or not?
3) PB3: Your mod prevents early game tech trading, we either ban tech trading or have AI diplo to go with it. PB3 would not have happened in either case today.
4) PB4: Players signed super long NAPs with Lord Parkin and lost before they could attack. There was some masochism there (although I'm sure there was hope that they could win as well), but that is again prevented by modern games being AI diplo.
5) PB6: No ignominy except for the brief controversy over a banter thread. No masochism except for team 4, and that was due to disparity in skill (from the former team players) a la PB2. Mod would not have prevented that. Game was won by surprise winner like PB1.
6) PB7: Game collapsed in ignominy, due to public diplomacy and people abusing the double move rule which relied on good faith. AI diplo and modern PB standards of "don't fucking double move" prevent that, independent of mod status.

Modern Pitbosses run longer without a runaway because:
1) They have much better player balance. PB9 is on turn ~170, and isn't played with your mod.
2) They have AI diplo, which prevents player burnout when there is tech trading, ill-advised super long NAPs, and greatly reduces the risk of people getting pissed at each other because they aren't talking.
3) There are many more players than a PBEM.

None of these relate to whether a mod is being played or not. The one time your mod was played under PBEM, it was played under AI diplo, and the map imbalance cancelled out the player imbalance to a large degree. yuris had a very good start, for example. Tech trading kicked in later of course, but nobody is going to play tech trading with your mod again most likely, because in a Pitboss there is generally going to be at least one player who trades indiscriminately and the assumption of your entire system that people behind will trade with each other to catch up to the leader breaks down. How many times did Nakor trade with you in PB5?

But I fully concede your point that there are people who like your mod, so it's a perfectly useful entity. That doesn't mean there's no reason to alter it any more, but it's clear that the aims of the mod aren't my personal aims - I would play a mod that fixes the systems (or some subset of the systems) that we routinely ban as broken or overpowered, and nothing else. Your mod tries to balance the entire game, and I don't think everyone will agree on how to balance the systems that we don't ban, so I don't agree with the scope of the mod.

Edit: Correction on PB2 - the regoarrarr team would normally have been perfectly fine competition for Spulla. They played terribly and were killed by chariots however, so the point about player balance stands.

[regoarrarr]

Well as fun as it has been reading the "not PBEM50" thread - I interrupt to ask an actual game / reporting-related question. Krill will you (or could you) post a note here when you've updated your blog?

[Krill]

Well Fuck me this will be an interesting game.

[pindicator]

Well Fuck me this will be an interesting game.

I'm looking forward to it!
Somehow i had never found your blog before so i'm finally going to read your PB5 thoughts

[Krill]

Well, you might be a while because there's over 250,000 of them right there.

[Hesmyrr]

How do you remove the awkward 'Follow The Grilled Krill' pop-up?

[Krill]

Updated.

Hesmyrr, I don't know. I'd advise anyone to run ad block :shrug:

[Oxyphenbutazone]

Nothing more ignominious nor masochistic than declaring that defeat is inevitable on turn 2