[SPOILERS] Caught in tides of war... yuris125 and Krill - PBEM56

[yuris125]

I really want to make this start work without taking a gamble on moving into the fog. If it's at all possible. Take Pacal of Inca? See if it's still good in Tides of War?

Still think that taking a Fishing/Mining civ (Carthage?? go for early HBR and an attack with Numidian Cavalry?), researching Agri -> BW, building Worker and chopping WB could be a reasonable option. Maybe even China, and research BW -> Fishing? We likely will have the first pick on civ. Don't know how viable it is

[yuris125]

Also, sorry for slow replies, somehow have a rather busy pre-Christmas time at work.. never happened before!

[Krill]

Carthage is junk, the UU is a straight nerf. It should never, ever, be picked if HA combat is likely.
Rome in this mod is not much better. Preats are stack and city defenders, UB does literally nothing.
Portugal on what is essentially a pangaea is no better than Rome.
That leaves England with the late game...everything.

If you intend to settle in place, I would probably not take England unless you intended to go BW first, and grow to size 2 prior to finishing the workboat (crab for 4 turns, silk for 1 turn then silk/plains hill forest to finish wb eot T7, revolt T11 worker eot T12 following slave). And then you realise it is no better than starting with different starting techs anyway.

No worries about delay in replies, I'm trying to get an essay finished and just don't care about it, so I'm procrastinating.

[Krill]

Oh normal speed, yah...yeah, everyone looked at CHM and thought it was OP. No surprise there. I suspect Ichabod wants Inca, and truth be told I think he should be given it; Inca works best when it's possible to go straight Mining>BW and a T0 Terrace then growing for a double pop whip (probably timed such that the worker will overflow over half the necessary production for the second worker as well). It doesn't fit this start, so it's not a good test.

Sorry to say this yuris, but there is no way to make this start work in the same manner as a double land food start. Workboat starts just don't work like that. If you were to go and chop a workboat you have to realise that everyone else would have chopped a second worker and will be getting ahead on improving more tiles and roading to the second city. Work boat starts only function when going work boat first and using the early improved tile yield to speed up that first worker.

Objectively, the more I look at the starting tech balance I'm not sure I actually like the change to Fishing. There is now no reason to want to start with it because everyone can go work boat first and you only research it if you have to, and if you have to research it to hook up a food resource that puts you further behind on getting to BW, to AH, to Pottery. Increasing the cost just makes it more of a punishment if you actually have to get it; you either spend longer researching it, or you have a restricted amount of civs that you can choose from because you have to start with Fishing.

[yuris125]

I'm actually getting tempted by the Egypt plan. Never rushed someone in MP, and this start does call for an unconventional opening. Getting a double food resources requires a too big investment, and growth off a single one will be slowed down a lot compared to everyone else

Actually thought about moving the Scout to the hill in the NW... then remembered about 1-move Scouts in Tides of War

I will spend the evening thinking about it.. will see if I can resist the temptation.....

[Krill]

...well, I didn't think you'd actually take me seriously and consider that plan (I'd do that, just didn't think you would).

If you want to look on the bright side, this game isn't likely to last past turn 100 and there is a decent chance if something goes wrong you could get taken out pretty easily so limited responsibility...

[yuris125]

Lol, that certainly is a bright side...

One last try for a peaceful option - Wang Kon of India? With +50% Worker production, we can work the Silk, and finish even the more expensive Fast Worker in 15 turns, while also getting extra commerce. Fast Workers can be a way to catch up after a slow start... or can they?

[Krill]

Not really, not when you also have to find the extra hammers for a work boat on top of the extra hammers for the fast worker. Fast workers enable you to get resources hooked up sooner if they are slightly further apart, and to chop forests quicker, but with the nerf they don't pay back for quite a while. And this start can't really afford any time to pay back, because it doesn't have it.

PRO isn't actually that good for this start if settling in place, it doesn't help with the worker build, gain 1 turn on the work boat...

[yuris125]

But it does help! Not as much as it potentially can, but it does give an extra hpt - the bonus is +50%, not +25% as Exp in BtS

[yuris125]

at least that's what the change log says