Gavagai and the gods of underground

[Gavagai]

Completed Mids, revolted into Rep. Now we will see if my gambit would work out and allow me to catch up. I suddenly have a lot of happy to play with, will try to grow my cities tall.

[Gavagai]

Gawdzak has 12 cities by T93 and it's not even the strongest start. I have nine currently, will have 10 in two turns and in this game it's just not good enough to keep up.
I think, I figured out why. Observe this:



My capital has three food resources, my first city adds one more (and shares another one with the capital), my second city adds Ivory and Fish.

Compare with this:



His capital is somewhat weaker than mine with two food resources to my three (though one can argue that he has two floods and four green riverside to my two to compensate) but his second city claims two new food-hammer resources and his third claims another two and Ivory. I can't see his fourth but I do know that my fouurth is also weak, claiming Sheep and Copper. I think, from this point he had a better snowball.
I could have played differently. For example, I could made Busty my second city instead of sixth:



Of course, I have reasons for delaying this city:
1) I didn't have a unit to scout this corner properly and didn't know about Cows for quite a long time.
2) I wanted to work Furs because of Pyramids plan which made splitting sheep away important.
3) This city has a very low priority from geopolitical viewpoint.
But were all these good reasons? It looks like they weren't. From this point it would be very hard to have any constructive strategy as I will be under a constant threat of annihilation from a much stronger neighbor.

[Commodore]

Gandhi also is a much slower leader, I'd say. You're being out-expanded by Creative, Expansive, Imperialistic right?

[Krill]

Maybe settling Red Gate as second city, but settle it one south east and focus on popping borders. Then you can settle cities to overlap the food resourses without needing to pop borders in any further cities? If can use the sheep and corn tyo grow quickly, then stagnate at size 5 on the plains cow, copper and three mined grasslands. 17hpt at size 5 can do pretty much anything you want.

That said, my reaction to the hunting change to scouts in ToW can easily be described as "Do Not Want". This is one of the problems with having a 1 move scouting unit, if you don't get lucky on the scouting you make early game decisions that screw you into the ground. From the land you had uncovered on T37 you didn't have any good choices IMO.

[The Black Sword]

Gandhi also is a much slower leader, I'd say. You're being out-expanded by Creative, Expansive, Imperialistic right?

Yeah, I'd mostly agree with this, you really notice the difference when you have two late game traits and some of your opponents have two early game ones. Plus you built the Mids, which is roughly the resources for two more cities as well.

Your first city is better than Gawdzak's IMO in terms of yields, though his does claim a strat resource. His second is only better because of his Cre trait.

I think I would have settled Busty earlier than sixth though. Even without the cows, it's a really strong site. Putting it one south could also be a consideration, 2 resources straight away, get a monument quickly for the other two.

[Gavagai]

Sorry, guys, it looks like I got some rare feedback and failed to respond. Were really busy in RL, that's my excuse.
Some comments:
1. Gandhi is a slow leader but I always take a slow leader in RB games. It was never a problem before.
2. Krill's alternative Red Gate idea is interesting, though unorthodox, but that would be a very aggressive second city and a city which would use its Corn would be even more aggressive.
3. I've built Mids, true, but I only needed to invest 120 hammers into a Forge and then run an Engineer for 15 turns (btw, I suspect that with Stone and/or Industrious trait it possibly doesn't worth it even if you disregard tech cost).
4. My third, fourth and fifth cities were settled because of strategic reasons, that's why Busty was delayed.
Some current news - I have 9 turns to my second GE and have an option to bulb Machinery and then whip out a lot of Xbows using Forges and Police State. However, Gawdzak should be able to counter this threat if he plays right. Basically, it would be PB16 reversed for me with myself in Gaspar's position. I can ruin his game, surely, but it's not a way to win.
Also, I'm making +10 gpt at 0% science. My tiles are not exactly optimized for commerce but still amusing. Of course, in a few turns I will start to run Rep scientists and they will help with commerce greatly.

[Gavagai]

Barteq's borders. What shall we do - make contact and ask for open borders to establish IC trade or hide our presence and then drop a company of Praetorians out of nowhere? Prudence dictates the first option but the second one is so much fun...

[Gavagai]

Btw, this little island offers an unpleasant dilemma in regards to settling decisions...

[Gavagai]

Gawdzak is a monster, he played a very very strong opening. I spent a lot of time thinking about my military options against him. I will have another GE soon, it can bulb Machinery and then I can jump into Police State and whip an army of Praets/Xbows. This can be sone very quickly. Even despite the lack of 2-movers, I'm pretty confident that this army can beat whatever Gawdzak will have in the open field. The main weakness of this idea is the lack of siege. I can't hope to tech Construction in a reasonable time (my GNP is pretty pathetic) and Gawdzak will just need to build walls in his cities to force a stalemate. And I can't hope to win a war of attrition against him.
I think, latest RB-mod has trebs on Machinery? In that mod it would have been a good plan...

[The Black Sword]

1. Gandhi is a slow leader but I always take a slow leader in RB games. It was never a problem before.

That's because all the top players in previous games also took slow leaders, which in turn is partly due to playing base BTS where a slow Fin trait is almost a must pick:

PB12 - Serdoa with Darius

PB16 - Seven with Monty, Sulla with Lizzy

PB17 - Not so strong opponents, Yuris takes Sury, the only person with double early traits and gets caught in an early war.

What do your demos look like anyway?