Cheater Hater's PBEM58 Thread (with a surprise post lead!)

[Cheater Hater]

T68 Report:
I put this report off a bit--not that much is happening, and things seem like they aren't going well :/


I'm still moving my "stack" south--at the very least it'll distract eastway while he demolishes it. He offered flat peace again this turn, but I still don't think I should take it--obviously peace is in eastway's best interest, but he doesn't seem to be doing much with his military--I guess he's just going to keep reinforcing Isengard as long as he keeps seeing Praets around Hartschild, and we'll keep this cold war up for a while--although he can keep researching stuff at the same time, while I really can't both keep up the power surge as well as constant research at the same time. My best hope may be just trying to be a distraction, at least until someone *cough*B4ndit*cough* realizes eastway's on the fast track to win this game, so we need to stop him. At the very least, AT and Twinkletoes have some idea of what's up since they closed borders with eastway after he got the Great Lighthouse, but then AT's probably in prime position to win (he did rush Pyramids this turn, as expected)--he's not nearly as far ahead at least since he's not rocketing ahead in the city count.

That kinda got long-winded--here's the eastway report:




At least there's no whips--though he managed to build (and/or research) enough to counteract the axe we know he lost, while I went down noticeably after I lost the Praet.

Now to domestic stuff--the one part I like about this game currently


The most important news is that I popped the Great Scientist as expected, so I'll have two Academies soon (my only real advantage I have over everyone else). I also will have Calendar resources soon so I'll actually have happiness and can grow my lush cities. I don't know where I should go next though--Metal Casting for Forges (aka more stuff I can't afford to build), Code of Laws for Courthouses (stuff I can't build) and Caste System (civic I can't afford to go out of slavery for at this point), Horseback Riding for Horse Archers (as well as a quick power increase), or catch-up down the Mysticism path, aiming for Monarchy eventually--I'm not sure :/

[Old Harry]

How much good will the academy do you over the next 30 turns?

[Cheater Hater]

Right now the Academy has two main uses: improving science long-term in Misama Woods, as well as expanding the borders (which gets me multiple pigs, as well as an iron resource). I don't think there's much else to use it for at the moment though--the super-specialist is clearly worse than an academy except in the super-short term, bulbing Alphabet literally doesn't do anything expect let me see other people's techs and build research, but the golden age requires a lot more research to tell if it's worth it. I know it'll help me build everything in addition to the research help, but considering all my cities are constrained by happiness, I don't think it's at its best here. There's also the problem that each golden age cost more, so I want to use them as late as possible to maximize their use--but then if I get to that point faster it's better :/

Maybe what I'll need to do is pop the golden age when I get the turn back and see how it affects my economy--most notably if it lets me get to Calendar more quickly it's probably worth it

[Old Harry]

Naa, early golden ages aren't that much cop, especially with so few cities and a low happy cap.

If you settled the specialist in your capital with the other academy what sort of return would you get? I guess I should have asked what he was for before you spent 20 turns generating him...

[Cheater Hater]

It would just be the hammer, along with the 9 beakers--I haven't even gotten around to building a library there yet

Honestly, the main reason I generated that was for the early Academy in the capital--and then I just kept running scientists mainly because I didn't have many other non-food tiles to work at the time

I'm playing the turn now--there's some interesting things (eastway's offering me something for peace this time, for instance), but I'm still trying to figure out what to do with some things--expect the report relatively soon

Edit: I finished the turn, but I'm not in a reporting mood--the report should still come tonight, just not "relatively soon"

[Cheater Hater]

T69 Report:
*sigh* I hate war turns--it just becomes a chess match (and I'm saying that as someone who likes chess). I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of this latest peace offer though:


He's finally offering to pay me something to go away--but only 40 gold and not all at once even? Clearly I'm doing more than 40 gold worth of damage to him at the moment then
I've already offered him what I want once (permanent damage; aka Isengard), and he responded with a joke offer--I didn't offer anything this turn, we'll see what he offers next. Until then, we'll keep moving our queens back and forth:


We have an interesting problem--his stack of 8 axes (7 fresh, 1 C1) is bigger than mine, but mine has stronger units (3 Praets, 1 C2 Axe, 2 fresh axes) The one question is how much of his power is concentrated in that stack? We know how much power he has thanks to him being the max (174k), so how much can we see, how much comes from units we know he has, how much comes from tech/population we can see, and how much is unknown? I know it's C&D, but it's not that hard
To help, I have the Eastway overview--this helps mainly for population purposes:


Visible units: 8 S Axes+1 E Axe+1 E Chariot=9*6+4=58k
Known Units (from T61/62): 3 Spears+1 Archer (+1 Warrior, could have been upgraded)=3*4+3(+2)=15k/17k
Techs: Mining+Hunting+Wheel+BW+Archery+Math(+Sailing?+IW/HR?)=2+2+4+8+6+6(+2+10)=28k/40k
Population: 2+4+7+6+3+7+5+3 (F+H+K minimum)=37/2=18k
Total=119k/133k
Missing: 55k/41k
So that's a lot of power I can't see at the moment, even if we make some assumptions. For example, if F, H, and K all have 2 pop instead of 1, that's another 2k, and I'm guessing eastway has both IW and HR now, which is another 10k on the high end. I'm guessing eastway has at least one more axe on Grey Havens (since he has one I can see, as you'll see in the east shot), so that's another 6k that doesn't matter. I also don't know how much garrison he has on the other cities--if we assume A, D, F, H, and K all have warriors on them (which certainly isn't something we can assume based on previous info), that's another 10k minimum--if we start making all these educated guesses, that means eastway can only have a couple more axes in the fog.

Now let's look at the east:


In this shot you can see my Great Scientist moving towards Miasma Woods, but more importantly I still see eastway's worker. If I do take the worker this time (and I assume he'll move it back this time) I'll delete it like I should have last time, since I'm less likely to win the battle I can see--but then again, it's much less likely that there will be something in the fog that can hurt it (assuming I can't see anything, it would have to be a 2-mover).

Now let's look at the capital:


Not much is going on here--I'm taking a risk by trying to finish the library in Caldisla instead of building more military, but there's not much news other than that. One thing I might try is moving the Praet coming out of Starkfort soon north, aiming to hit Dale (along with other possible cities he might have built in that direction). Other than that, I probably should build more Catapults sooner rather than later, especially if eastway's going to keep one-third of his power in one stack--I wonder if he realizes I went for Construction yet--or does he have it himself? (remember, we believe someone has it).

Finally, something completely different--a scout move!


We're finally scouting Twinkletoes! If only I would have been able to do this before I gave up on C&D--it's way too late to catch up now it seems like, unless I want to spend a whole day doing it/someone else spends a whole day doing it for me
(but if you want to, all the pictures are in my Dropbox folder )

[Cheater Hater]

Hooray, for once PB18 is the game making me angry, and not PBEM58
T70 Report:
I'm actually starting to get back in the groove of this game a bit--though not enough to do full C&D or anything
Let's start in the south, where the chess match continues:


My main stack (2 Praets, 3 Axes) is on the forest; the two hills each have a single Praet. On eastway's side, the stack of axes is on the gold hill, the chariot is alone protecting a worker, and the Spear/Chariot/Archer are defending Isengard (which is the main reason I put a Praet on the northern hill). We'll see where he moves his axes next--if he moves them south, I'm seriously thinking about moving my stack 1E, forcing him to attack across the river (and then moving around his stack, trying to position myself across rivers, while always being ready to surge for Isengard if he ever lets his guard down). However, that's not the most interesting part of the war planning--the power graph is very interesting:


There's two big takeaways from this graph:

• eastway's power is flat for the first time in many turns. At this point I'm assuming this is just a temporary blip and he's still planning on building military, but it could be that he's thinking his current military loadout is good enough until he reaches another good military tech (which could be a lot of things--Machinery for Crossbows or HR for Horse Archers being the two main ones)--or he's planning on getting peace relatively soon.
  
• AT's power has actually passed mine!
  Granted, this is temporary since I have two Praets completing this turn, but it's still something to be concerned about. It could just be signal #453 that I'm not anywhere close to a factor in this game, but I think it could be another thing (and the lurker thread activity whenever AT posts helps corroborate this): he's going to war with somebody soon! Of course, the real question is if he's going to war, who would it be against? The obvious target would be Twinkletoes (he's Min in power, and has 10 cities without as much GNP to support them as eastway does), but I'm really worried about him trying to snipe Florem--I'm building an archer (or maybe even a Praet?) there after I whip the library, and it'll get helped along by a chop as well.
  

Now to the eastway overview:


That was really boring
So this space isn't completely empty, we can add another chariot to eastway's power count, and since it hasn't changed, that means the range of missing power is now 51k/37k.

Let's check in on the eastern front:


At the very least, I've stopped eastway from pasturing--he's trying to get me to move my Praet, but there's no need to, since I can fortify and eastway can't get odds on me without another unit (which I can't see). Other than that, you can see my Great Scientist sitting in Misama Woods--hooray for science!

Now to the domestic situation--things are getting fun again


As I mentioned, I'm finishing two Praets this turn--though honestly, I'm not sure if either one is heading directly to the Hartschild front. I already mentioned my plan for the Starkfort Praet to sneak up on Dale, but that's also going to involve scouting my north, at least in part--one thing I could do is actually send my reserve settler up by a city near the silk, so I have more happiness to go around--it certainly seems like there's good cities around there, and it shouldn't be that expensive. As for the Norende Praet, I might end up keeping that around for defense--most likely getting something better than a warrior in Florem.

One of the other things I did this turn was 2-pop whip the library--that seems like a fine move since it means there's fewer unhappiness in there, it only lost working the wheat, and it can regrow quickly once I have the happiness to spare. Florem is also probably going to whip its library this upcoming turn, and then overflow into military of some kind.

Of course, the big thing happening at EOT is finishing Calendar. I'll be able to start immediately on improving the spices at Miasma Woods, and I'll have 3 workers chopping/improving the dyes at Florem, so that will be two quick happiness. The problem is that I don't know where I should go with my research next. Part of me says I should just stay in a holding pattern by researching down the Mysticism line--but there's actually two things I can do with that. The obvious line is just to head towards Monarchy, but instead what I could do is research Mysticism and Meditation, then plan for my next Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy! Granted, it's not nearly as good here as it is in SP without trading it to idiot AI's--and you might even need Alphabet in order to bulb it; I don't have the bulb list memorized--but it does give me a religion and access to Pacifism if I want it. The main problem with that is that in order to maximize Philosophy, I want a golden age to swap into Taoism/Pacifism/Caste System, and that requires yet another Great Scientist. However, I'm not sure what I would want to do with my third scientist (which I'm not currently generating btw; I prioritized production in Norende to finish the Praet this turn, and then I think I might want another worker next while I'm waiting to connect the calendar resources, which means I can work all three food resources)--obviously Hartschild wants an Academy, but I'm not risking wasting a Great Scientist in a city I might lose. Maybe by the time I finish the third Great Scientist either I'll finally be finished with the eastway war, or I'll have enough of a happiness buffer to launch my golden age.

Other than all the Mysticism options, my other two main lines are Metal Casting and Code of Laws. Of the two, I think I like Code of Laws more--it helps my economy recover both with Courthouses, as well as leading to Civil Service (which seems insane with my monster capital).

Anyway, that was a longer report than I expected--maybe I'm getting back into this game? Or maybe I'm just trying to ignore the crap that happened in PB18

[Cheater Hater]

T71 Report:
Things are really getting interesting now; I'm finally thinking I can start to get aggressive in the south! Before that, we have another peace offer from eastway:


Hooray, I'm worth 10 more gold to eastway!
Considering the circumstances of the game so far eastway (both my actions and another person's actions, as we'll see later), you really should be offering me something more for peace. I'm going to wait and see how my current maneuver works before offering peace for Isengard again--if I need to

As I promised, let's see what's going on in the south!


The axe stack moved south! This seems like a mistake by eastway, since there's two possibilities here:

• eastway moves his stack onto the gold hill: This is a major blunder, since I move south of the gold hill, and start heading for Eglarest. The one complication is that there are a lot of roads in eastway's territory--but notably, not on the gold hill! What he could do is move SE from the gold hill next turn, but then I can still move my stack south, and even though I can't necessarily take Elgarest, I'll be able to see it at least, and I'm across a river and/or on a hill every step of the way.
  
• Anything else: I can move on the gold hill (possibly killing the chariot if he leaves it there, and threaten Isengard, almost certainly forcing eastway to move the stack back into Isengard. After that I'm not sure what I'll do, but I'll be up a chariot regardless.
  

One of the main reasons I can do this is since eastway revealed another axe in the east, and I'm assuming he still has something on Grey Havens--and his power is still basically flat! Speaking of the east, let's head there:


As I said, there's another axe--if it moves in range of mine, I'll retreat my Praet back to Miasma Woods.

Now we have the eastway overview:


No visible whips, and a growth in Calembel--this is combined with a what looks like a 1k power increase (likely from pop), so combined with the new axe the invisible power is now only 45k/31k.

Let's move to domestic matters, starting at the capital:


Not much new here--Calendar came in, so I'm starting to improve the calendar resources (the spices at Miasma Woods and the dyes at Florem now, the dyes at Miasma Woods in the near future) mainly. I also whipped the library in Florem, and am setting up whipping a lighthouse in Starkfort (both of which will overflow into military), and started another Catapult in Caldisla and Worker in Norende.

Now let's take a closer look at the north, since I haven't really done much there:


You'll notice I actually moved the settler into Starkfort, so I'm serious about founding a city somewhere around here--I just have no clue where I'm putting it at the moment. Right now my gut is saying to put it right next to the northern fish, but I'm not sure about that until I scout a bit more.

Next, since Twinkletoes hasn't reported in three weeks, I'll report for him



Not much to report, but it's there and I'm finally defogging a rival
Finally, now to a trio of pictures the lurkers I'm sure have been waiting for me to post:






I'm sorry, I don't know what Twinkletoes revolting to Hereditary Rule has to do with me--wait, I'm being told to look at AT's stuff in these pictures--as such, my reaction has changed to
Holy crap, he switched to Police State off Pyramids! That certainly explains his surge of military--though not quite how in the heck he is currently even beating eastway in power! That's in addition to being first in GNP as well! Is this how it feels to be a kingmaker? It looks like AT will devour Twinkletoes in the near future (he wouldn't want to attack me since I'm bringing down his main rival), and eastway's going to need to pay me handsomely to get me out of this revenge war if he has any shot of stopping AT. This is a weird situation to be in, but it feels good to actually be mattering after the disasterous B4ndit war.

[Cheater Hater]

Really, now I'm not worth anything? Wait--why am I +11 gold now--that means he must have attacked, and...no


Wait--he only lost 4 of the 8 axes? And I lost 5 of my 7 units, even though I had better units for the most part, and his axes were attacking across a river?


Wait, 11 attacks, when I can only see 10 units? (the 8 axes+2 chariots) That must mean...


Wait, he killed that one too? I really hate to be the one who cried "RNG manipulation", but I'm just going to leave my folder of combat logs pictures here (is there an easier way to get the information out other than taking a lot of pictures?), ask if there's a way to get a better picture of what's going on with the combats (notably what order everything happened, since I don't think I can tell when the eastern Praet was attacked for instance), let the save sit for a bit while I play the PB18 turn, then come back and see what my plan should be going forward.

[NobleHelium]

Your lone praetorian was killed last.