RBP4 [SPOILERS] - Shaka of Zulu (sunrise089, regoarrarr, and friends)

[Kyan]

I forget what I might have said when we started the game but I'd be interested at some point in a limited diplomacy type game

Don't think that people only rate you as a player for your diplo skills mate. If that's even what you were getting at...

[regoarrarr]

It's a compliment if anything. I enjoy diplo and Rego is one of the best at it. A game with Rego with diplomacy on sounds great to me. I play football (soccer ) also and i would *much* rather play against a team out of my league and lose 3-0 than play some scrubs and win 10-0.

Awwww shucks!

*makes note on pbem17 diplomacy sheet

Kyan +1 you sucked up to us!
Darrell:
-5 We are afraid of your vassals
-8 You keep harassing us about the save
-15 You are darrelljs
+1 You proved you were an easy mark in PBEM5

[regoarrarr]

Don't think that people only rate you as a player for your diplo skills mate. If that's even what you were getting at...

No - I really would enjoy a game with similar diplo settings to PBEM13. I think I'd have to wait for a game or two I'm currently in to end as I think I'm in too many games, but it sounds fun.

As I've mentioned (many times) before, I used to play a lot of PBEM Diplomacy, and there's lots of fun settings you can use there - regular press which lets you send whatever to whoever, then broadcast only (where everything you say is broadcast to everyone - something like having only a forum thread maybe similar to recent werewolf games), and then there's even settings where you can send anonymous (gray) or fake (black) press to people - so like I could send you a note and it would not show who it came from or might even look like it came from Krill.

Just adds some spice

[regoarrarr]

And the real gem of the afternoon, the unedited chat logs with plako

It isn't going well....

Me: hey there
sorry for the long email

plako: Hi np
Me: we were just really taken aback
plako: and sry for appearing cold. I'm not tnative and try to usually focus on facts in my emails
Me: yeah i know
that's what i meant by maybe i just mis-interpreted things
that's the problem with having such good english
people just assume you're native ;-)
i actually had to ask 2 people to confirm
then found it in a chat transcript from a few weeks ago where you had mentioned it
plako: yeah. Taking for example your latest messsgae, it would have taken virtually hours for me to write
So you've planned to settle SE from the fork
Where exactly
Me: well there were a few spots
we had also been sending units down to potentially "take" a few spots
plako: You understand that I've used lot of hammers to get where I'm. It feels a bit like you're claiming land that we've won
Me: which is why we emailed you in the first place since we didn't want to get in your way
yes i understand that
why you would feel that way
and i'm not trying to do that
plako: Well it is clearly WK's land and you wouldn't be settling there if WK would be around without war
Me: do you understand where we all are coming from - about concerns of you having twice the land of everyone else?
yes that's true for knossos and mycenae
WK had said a few weeks ago that he wasn't going to be settling any further north
plako: Lp has lots of unsettled land. Locke is doing alrigh
Me: so we had started moving things down
plako: You've almost same numvber of cities as us
Me: agreed - you're not the only one
but nobody as much land as you and WK put together
plako: The starnge thing is that WK actually doesn't have that much land in east
He was in teh corner
Me: hmm
plako: His main direction of expnasion would have been west and NE
I can send you shot
Me: well i guess in a sense it's kind of futile for us to argue about who is best and such - after all, i'm sure that i would try to downplay how well i'm doing if someone was asking me about my cities
and i'm sure you will do so too
in the end, answer this - would you want to trade civs with anyone else in the game?
plako: Naturally
Me: i wouldn't, if i were you
plako: Tricky question actually. #2 might be the best spot
Me: okay that's true - i meant from a pure civ perspective
plako: No need to be afraid of embargos
Me: w/o having to worry about the metagame of it
personally i would trade with you, LP and Locke and maybe moogle but that's it
plako: LP is probably only one
He has great resources
I've soon 2 nations and still have way less happiness resources than him
Me: so i guess the real question is how do you and us get through this whole border thing, so that we can regroup, recover economy, and smack him around in ~50 turns?
plako: Well I need to see what exactly you're offering
Can you send me shot what you suggest
Me: well i'm a bit hampered by not having exact maps of the area south of knossos and mycenae
our plan had been that we would take out knossos and mycenae, and that seemed like a natural choke-type border between you from the southa nd us from the nroth
but you're going a bit faster than we expected
(or maybe WK is jus tfalling apart :-) )
now i understand your feeling that we're just trying to swoop in and take land that you've won (or are winning)
and so i want to make sure that we address that
that's why i was suggesting ways that we might figure out a way to compensate you for that, including purchasing units at a good deal for you
or the city SW of bob's fork
etc
plako: Fork city os ok I've no problem with it
Me: well my point was just that it was another city for you - the border seems natural with either of us owning it
plako: However Mycenae and Knossos are not
I'll be there soon
Me: sure. i'd argue that we're already there but if you made up your mind to take it, we can't stop you (at least not at this current point)
and i don't want to get hostile with you because i'd prefer to work it out a different way
plako: Is that a threat
Me: lol
i try to make it a point not to threaten people with 2-3x my power!!!!
plako: lol
So You want Mycenae and Knossos
and tha is your suggestion
Me: so i see mycenae (the western city) connecting back to wK's core - but i can't tell if knossos does or not
well i'm trying to figure out where would be a good border for our two civs
i also would prefer to work with you rather than against you in the mid to long term, and so i'm trying to figure out a way that you don't get dogpiled for having 2x the land
(i'm such a nice guy, right? sorry - that last paragraph came out weird)
so i'm not necessarily sold on having knossos and mycenae
but that was what we had been planning for before you blew through WK so fast
and if you take those i'm not sure where else provides a sensible border
unless we go all the way back up to bob's fork
plako: Bob's fork would have been my suggestion
Nice place to have border
easy to defend for both of us
Especially to you with just 1 front
Me: that is true but the problem is that you have twice the land of us
and so we're kind of all just waiting around for you to convert that to a winning position
plako: I don't have twice the land as I said WK had way less land than e.g. Locke and Adlain has between them
You've also settled pretty agressively to claim land
So I suspect you've more than 1/10th
Me: are you currently #1 in land?
plako: yeah
tad under 10%
Me: yeah like 237 or something?
plako: did you try to log in
someone bounced from me
234
Me: no
haven't tried yet
plako: Must be Ioan then
Me: they log in like 20 times a turn ;-)
plako: Busy times for them
Me: so does mycenae connect to the rest of WK's lands?
or just through knossos?
plako: I don't see exact positioning o f the Knossos, but I see cultural borers SE from Mycenae
Is it there
Must be since he has only 4 cities
Its Corinth and then Mycenae NE from it and then Knossos SE of it
They're land connected
There is some unsettled NE from Mycenane
and E also
Me: mycenae is the western city?
plako: Knossos is further east
Me: ok
plako: Mycenae is directly south from your city in the fork
Me: does knossos connect to corinth directly?
or only through mycenae?
plako: through Mycenae there is quite narrow isthmus from Corinth
Me: right
i see that
but i can't see what is south of knossos
if it's just ocean or not
plako: ocean both sides
Me: ok
so mycenae is very bob's fork-y also then, right?
1 city border for us?
plako: To me most natural place for our border city is 1S of the mountain that leads to fork and claims cows in 2nd ring that are located east from the spot
also 1W of the cows could work
Just one thing I noticed when going through our chat. how serious you're about this: "so i guess the real question is how do you and us get through this whole border thing, so that we can regroup, recover economy, and smack him around in ~50 turns?"
We were discussing LP here
Me: i'm mildly serious
it's a little bit tricky for us since we're across the ocean
plako: yeah
Me: but if you and us are truly going to work through the current greece issue
and if we can get our civ out of the toilet (which is a big if i know)
then i think it makes a lot of sense to smack around one of both of our main competitor
s
plako: Makes sense
Me: so when you say a border city near the peak / cows
do you mean that's YOUR front city? or ours?
plako: ours yes. Would give us both easy border
Yours would be very easy just 1 border city
WE would have 2 directions
W and S
I admitht that the land there isn't nothing too special just cows and pigs outside of Mycenae and Knossos
So I'm open for suggestions
But I'm not really negotiating about WK's old cities
Me: yeah there really isn't any good food there
plako: Pigs are actually probably already claimed by Knossos
Me: i think pigs are 3N of knossos
but i'm going off an old map
plako: ok
Me: how about this
we settle 2N1W of the pigs
you keep the greek cities
plako: Now looking at it again you're probably right
Me: i mean we're talking about 5 or so cities here on this peninsula, right?
the other thing we haven't talked about is "WarriorKnight's crazy adventure"
so if we're able to agree down here we will decline to get involved there
plako: Your desicion, but I wouldn't be plased
Me: yes it doesn't seem like the thing that 2 powers that are trying to move towards closer relations would do
which is why we are willing to decline it
even if it would be kind of hilarious (from a neutral standpoint) :-D
plako: Just for the record. War weariness wouldn't be a big issue. I haven't wasted units
Me: cool
seems like there's a decent amount of happy on the map anyways
plako: With Forges yes
Me: do you have MC?
plako: But asI said we're unlucky ones in that department
Me: yeah
plako: yes
Me: we can't all have double gold triple gems or whatever he has
plako: yeah. Just makes me want to cry when I need to capture WK just to get 2nd silver+gold and our only furs
Me: yeah we have one silver, but it's like 2 tiles from the north edge of the map in the tundra
we haven't settled it yet
plako: I settled terrible spot also to get it
Me: yeah probably intentional by the mapmaker
plako: WK's is better positioned
Me: oh.
plako: it has 2*deers
But his copper was in bad place
Me: on your border?
plako: that gave us the early advantage
Me: yeah
plako: no in the north, but not riverside
Me: ah
plako: so he needed to have Wheel to connect it
Me: right
plako: After thinking about it I'm not very comfortable with your suggestion. It would waste lot of tiles. That would be pretty much only feasible city sites taking all the food resources
Me: well that was my idea
trying to give us both a solid border
do you have a counter proposal?
what if in exchange we gave you the cows site SW of bob's fork?
plako: It is hammered by your culture
Me: well we'd have to remove it
what if we arranged a fake war
you raze it and then replant a few tiles back where you had talked about previously?
dunno just thinking out loud
plako: Pretty wild idea had to think about it.
I thought that city was pretty good for you
being canal
Me: it's okay
but it overlaps the copper with our other city
i mean we want it fo rsure
but i think our border to the SE is more important to us
Sent at 17:05 on Tuesday
Me: thoughts?
plako: Thinking and not really liking it
Maybe I could give up the cows for a city up north
But thats it
Me: okay
plako: and even then I don't like the biorder
You could fork several of our cities from there. In hypothetical war scenario
Me: right - i think that above all we need to find a border that works for both of us
which is why i suggested mycenae and then backed up to the 2N pigs site
both of those i think give us both a good border
i actually have to run right now
but i'll follow back up with sunrise and try to catch you either tonight or tomorrow

[Krill]

Awwww shucks!

*makes note on pbem17 diplomacy sheet

Kyan +1 you sucked up to us!
Darrell:
-5 We are afraid of your vassals
-8 You keep harassing us about the save
-15 You are darrelljs
+1 You proved you were an easy mark in PBEM5

Please tell me you are applying this to NoSpace as well? Pretty please?

On topic: screenshots of the southern border, and demos please?

No - I really would enjoy a game with similar diplo settings to PBEM13. I think I'd have to wait for a game or two I'm currently in to end as I think I'm in too many games, but it sounds fun.

As I've mentioned (many times) before, I used to play a lot of PBEM Diplomacy, and there's lots of fun settings you can use there - regular press which lets you send whatever to whoever, then broadcast only (where everything you say is broadcast to everyone - something like having only a forum thread maybe similar to recent werewolf games), and then there's even settings where you can send anonymous (gray) or fake (black) press to people - so like I could send you a note and it would not show who it came from or might even look like it came from Krill.

Just adds some spice

This on top of a civ game sounds awesome.

[Kyan]

This on top of a civ game sounds awesome.

Emphasis is mine.

[sunrise089]

This on top of a civ game sounds awesome.

I don't follow the RB mod thread, but could your mod incorporate that in-game (the broadcast feature and the "grey" anonymous modeif not the "black" fake mode)?

[Krill]

We could do it in forum. Pick a gamemaster, and every turn you can email something that the game master will post in a public thread, or forward to the necessary parties. Could even roleplay it.

However, to mod it, you might have to do something really funky with the impersonate leader ability from FfH? That'd be a really funky thing to see built into a mod, but it's way out of my league.

[NobleHelium]

Awwww shucks!

*makes note on pbem17 diplomacy sheet

Kyan +1 you sucked up to us!
Darrell:
-5 We are afraid of your vassals
-8 You keep harassing us about the save
-15 You are darrelljs
+1 You proved you were an easy mark in PBEM5

No "-12 Krill is your dedicated lurker"?

[sunrise089]

No "-12 Krill is your dedicated lurker"?

I thought that was what the vassal remark meant...