This Time for Sure: Mardoc reprises the Lanun

[Mardoc]

2. Works of art whose sequel was better than the Original (or at least as good as, since that's about as rare.)

I like this one. Anyone have additions? We're going to need a lot of names, with 20 inland cities worth of land in 'our' portion of the continent, and a desire to take more than 'our' share.

The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to swap to building a worker. That was the big gap in my earlier sandbox, that after fishing I kept building workboats even when the worker techs started falling. Agriculture, in particular, is bound to fall before we're finished building workboats. If we can get a road built from the silk to the corn via the cow, the worker is likely to be able to keep up with his enabling techs.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is that a scout now is worth more than a scout later, after animals spawn. Plus a smidgen of wanting to grow to size 2 before starting workboats, so we can hit 7 hpt. But I think having improved tiles to grow onto is going to be more important.

Anyway, if I have the time, I think I'll recreate the sandbox yet again (at Huge), and see how fast I can get to size 6/7, working only improved tiles, settler/escort built. Probably won't have the time until Monday, though.

I think it might be possible to manage it this side of T30, actually. Once we're working Fish/corn/lake cove, growth is just explosive.


Thoughts?

[Mardoc]

I'm...not sure if RB is working or not. Pieces seem better, anyway. So have a post that Man Behind the Mask wrote, sent to me by E-mail. Then I'll respond. If, that is, RB is still functioning in a few minutes

Now...what did I do wrong?

I’d maybe say civics at this particular point of the game? Checking the worldwrap?



Or maybe just forgetting to agree a theme. If you’re going with a sequels idea, can I suggest unit-naming based on famous people who have had a notable second marriage? Our crack squad of Demi Moore, Angelina Jolie and Prince Charles will cause some damage!



I’d really hoped to get in some sandbox time, but unfortunately it was not to be. Maybe in the next couple of days, as I’m about to describe why I think this start in particular is ripe for some testing. In terms of what we might want to experiment with:

- I fear that going Agri-Fishing may not have given the “land” option it’s full due – if the worker was getting bored, then you’re not making the most of that early foodhammer investment. Maybe Agri->Calendar would be better? (I actually suspect it might be worse, because Fishing really is superior). It’s not really too late to change tack if the other approach is stronger.

- I’d be interested in trying out different tech orders after Fishing. With the three water tiles to work, maybe Crafting->Mining earlier is superior to getting the cow or even the corn online (although I suspect not). Similarly, are the cow hammers more valuable than the Silk commerce and happy?

- Is there a best order for workboat improvement? I suspect you went cove-cove-fish? It would be good to have the boost from the fish netted before we want to build a worker.

The main thing I'm wondering - should I keep building that scout?

If the map is huge and has huts, then we want at least our fair share, so I think a second scout is a good call. Similarly, we might as well use the time until Fishing to get fogbusters or settler escort ready. Intuition suggests we want to get big to churn out the workboats, then build workers and settler while improved tiles catch up (or emergency defenders ). I agree that the forested plains hill is a significant improvement – we were never in need of the extra food from something like a grass farm.

On a different note - darrell's setting up a tracker. Anyone want to be able to send and receive the save?

I’ve found being able to look at the save improves the quality of my commentary. I’d certainly appreciate a copy every few turns, even if I don’t go on the tracker system. Based on the timeslots, I’m unlikely to be able to do much turnplaying.





And my usual final thought… I’m very disappointed that Gaspar hasn’t replaced the horrifying Keown picture with a nice Pirate avatar.

[Man Behind the Mask]

I wonder if anyone will ever see this? Hopefully, this might get the thread back on an even keel.

Interesting to see how Mardoc's post evolved over time.

Maybe it's just because I'm inexperienced with the weird stuff you get with the Lanun, but I have no idea what the best option is. For me, one of the big advantages of early fishing is to work the two 3/0/2 tiles, which (even unimproved) are pretty good for this early. That suggests growing rather than building a road crew.

Maybe a compromise is best - grow to 2, start worker, swap to workboat for the fish, then finish worker with extra food?

This might all be academic if our civ gets vetoed. From what we know, this is a huge pangea. I'd have thought that if the Lanun were overpowered in that situation, then they should always be banned.

[Man Behind the Mask]

Hope that you've found some time for sandboxing now it looks like the Lanun's future has been resolved.

Just had a quick go, but only got through 1 and a bit runs. I think getting to size 3 for when Fishing comes in, so that you can keep growing while building 3T work boats (and more importantly work the coves!) feels like it's going to be much quicker than pausing for worker or only being size 2.

Going Fishing and growing, at T49 (just using the capital), I had 8 tiles improved (overkill!), a Sea Haven and Granary, 5 extra warrior/scouts, 3 workers, and a settler. I also had 100/145 in the next settler and 138/198 beakers in Festvials.

[Mardoc]

Just had a quick go, but only got through 1 and a bit runs. I think getting to size 3 for when Fishing comes in, so that you can keep growing while building 3T work boats (and more importantly work the coves!) feels like it's going to be much quicker than pausing for worker or only being size 2.

I just tried it myself, and although I stopped a littler earlier, at T39, I think you turn out to be right. I got the first settler and escort 1 turn sooner, and an extra worker and scout on hand, compared to if I build the worker first. So...



Sadly, Empire Strikes Back is too long a name for the city, and I didn't have any inspiration on abbv.

Edit: If anyone else wants to try: better sandbox

[Commodore]

Civilization 2?

[NobleHelium]

Civilization IV.

[Mardoc]

Civilization IV.

I don't know that I want to be *that* circular here

I’d maybe say civics at this particular point of the game? Checking the worldwrap?

Civics we're fine with (well, not worth changing yet, anyway. Worldwrap, though, that's something worth knowing. If we can get circumnavigation and be +2 water movement compared to everyone, that'd be big - and as long as we put some effort into it, that ought to be quite doable. Only question is, how precisely do I check the wrap? I don't want to repeat PBEM3 and sail into the map edge .

[Man Behind the Mask]

OOH! A dungeon! How itchy are you feeling?

Only question is, how precisely do I check the wrap? I don't want to repeat PBEM3 and sail into the map edge .

Iskender did a pretty good write-up of first turn tricks here [PBEM XII Spoilers!]

Had another blast at the sandbox, although might not have been quite as careful. Going Workboat (Fish)->Worker->2xWorkboat (Coves) keeps you much more up to date on improved tiles. The worker can start on the Plantation the Turn Calendar is in, and a quick 2nd worker at size 6 is all you need to avoid bumping against the happy cap. Settler is still T39 (Sea Haven before), so production is about the same. However, research is well behind and worker will be waiting around for Mining.

[Mardoc]

OOH! A dungeon! How itchy are you feeling?

Well, I mean, we're already ahead, presumably. That's not the best time to be adding variance to the game.

Iskender did a pretty good write-up of first turn tricks here [PBEM XII Spoilers!]

It's cylindrical. Circumnavigation, ho!

[SIZE="1"]Of course that may not be possible until Optics. Still, it suggests we want to get some exploring workboats sometime soon on the off chance. And to reduce the circum problem to one direction[/SIZE]

Either I'm not doing the mystical Ctrl + B + F11 trick correctly, or there are no unique features.

I don't seem to be able to learn much from the moving scout trick, my screen isn't big enough to get to an edge. Except that it's a very big world, but we knew that.

However, research is well behind and worker will be waiting around for Mining.

Except for that minor detail of roading to a 2nd city site and improving its tiles . And, well, we can spit out settling parties every 7-8 turns at size 7 (5 turn settler, almost 1 turn warriors), so then there's the 3rd city and the 4th and... . I don't think too many workers is going to be a real problem for us.