This Time for Sure: Mardoc reprises the Lanun

[Thoth]

Hah! cross posted with you.

We've now got darn near all the econ tech Going to pick up Drama real quick in order to tempt the RNG to start spreading OO again (that is, I bet most cities will get their free spread just after we build culture to pop their borders). With the number of happiness resources we've accumulated, new cities start with a happy cap of 14, and first ring just doesn't cut it anymore.

heck we're only 5ish turns away from our shrine. If the RNG wants to give us free GPT....:hat:

After that, we'll go for Smelting and Iron Working, then probably go pick up the magic techs, Mind Stapling, and Priesthood.

Looking at tech costs, the Node techs need to wait until after Religious Law. My eye says we're 13 turns from RL (via Drama, Smelting, IW, KotE, Priesthood, RL) and we have 14 turns left of the GA. We can pick up the node techs post GA while we pump out level 4 units.

Have a bit of an annoying turn in the circumnavigation front, though - run into a roadblock in the south, and a hostile griffon in the north. We may need to launch another ship or two to try alternate routes. I think the southern boat will keep heading west, perhaps if I can run into the donut again I can at least get circum in one direction. But I could be talked into admitting defeat and backtracking, to follow the donut around to the southeast.

That's a pain. Agreed with continuing West with the South boat. We may want to re-enforce the North Boat with a Longshoreman Trireme in order to defend against the Griffon in the North. (that would come from Tiller in place of the third worker in the queue....)

Meanwhile, other explorers have found such wonders as wheat, and yet more tasty looking islands:

Hooboy.....we might want to send our 3rd settler there instead of the Inland Sea. Building Culture/rushing WB is one turn slower on the Pearls than settling the inland sea island, but that Wheat is worth it's weight in gold. And it's a lot closer to us than the Northern Wheat.

We're also planning to settle the inland sea shortly - the copper city will go down, whip a galley, and immediately load a settler for what we think is an island there. And the incense site to the south will settle next turn, primarily because it's easy - already has improved tiles and a work boat being produced nearby.

Agreed on the Incense site....see above for a possible alternate use for the other settler. We'll need a worker and a garrison warrior for the Wheat site, but I think that is doable.

Demos...are quite nice looking.

That's understating it a bit....the only demo that worries me is the power graph and we should be fixing that over the next 6-7 turns.

And that's before we start our real build up.

We're putting almost as much GNP into cash rushing as most civs have, total. And still are outresearching the others by a goodly clip. Our production lead is also pretty nice, and doesn't include the cash rushing. Soon we'll boost it by a lot, by adding in Shipyards to half our cities.

Those Naval Yards are going to be huge, especially under a GA. In between Mizzenmast, Tiller and Topsail we have 20 worked Sea tiles. 3 of those tiles are already producing a base hammer so with rushed NYs we'll pick up 37 hammers per turn while in GA. Very nice indeedy. :hat:

In crop yield, we no longer have quite the advantage we used to. This is probably primarily due to our pause in our mad settling spree for the wonders; hopefully we can pull further ahead now that we're opening the settler spigot again.

Yeah, we only have a 50% lead in Crop Yeild.

And that will expand as our Island cities grow and complete Lighthouses. Plus those settlers you mentioned.

:hat:

Need more war toys on the board with those demos.

And of course, Soldiers is currently a signal that the world is farmer's gambitting. Now that people are starting to mutter about dogpiles, we're going to be investing some serious resources into military, probably 2-3 cities worth of production. After we get our Command Posts built there, of course.

For the moment....Both the Sheam and the Elfs can put together very strong attack forces very quickly. We don't want to dawdle with getting more boots on the ground ASAP.

So...on the Tatan front...I think we'll ignore him for a while yet. Granted, our cities will be able to add settlers/workers/military fast enough for perhaps a city every couple turns, for the foreseeable future (and better once the island cities have their infra in place and their growth done). But it will still take a long time to expand to the point where we can justify conquest.

We can always justify conquest. But I think a turn 125 timeframe is more realistic than anything sooner. That lets us field a very impressive force of Adepts, Cultists, Iron Swords, Boarding parties, Iron Chariots, a few mages maybe and some cats.

That is, our current goal is self-defense, aided by the sea. We will escalate, of course, the longer he stays at war with us, and the more resources we can afford to divert .

Remember, the best defense is a good offense. :hat:

[Mardoc]

Hold will be working a bare grass tile for two turns until we get the border pop, don't sweat it.

I did sweat it, a bit. Stole the copper mine from Poopdeck, let Poopdeck work a Sanitation-boosted farm instead. Poopdeck really wants to grow a bit, so that it's working all its tiles and a bunch of specialists besides - and Sanitation lets us do so.

Our new Copper/Pearl city gets founded t101 and works copper for two turns while building Culture, then gets a WB rushed to net Pearls.

Eh? You're ignoring the galley, aren't you? Or should we skip the offshore pearl site after all?

I suppose now that we can build culture, you've a point that the wheat is more important. I'll turn the settler around next turn. Just need to get a little bit more scouting done, so we can pick the right tile to settle .

Saverous is a Demon and so has innate 20% fire resistance. Post SoC we can build him with 4 promos (Mob 1 + C3). Thanks to the mod's changes to passive xp, it won't take long for him to get to 13 xp (Magic Resistance) and 20 xp (fire resistance) for a total of 95% resistance to fire. Note that Fireballs have a base st of 0 and +4 Fire st. Guess what happens when you try to Fireball a unit with 95% Fire resistance?

Ooh, I like that idea a lot. Str 9 (with Iron), huge fire resistance, he could lead the way against whichever of those we need to face first.

Everything else, consider me essentially in agreement. I might quibble over a detail here or there.

The main thing on my mind is, whether it's worth turning the slider up a notch to get to Religious Law and Iron Working a tad sooner. Probably not, though, we want to rush too much in our coastal cities to get those 3/1/3 tiles 'improved' via buildings. Especially to get them improved in time to benefit from the GA.

[Thoth]

I did sweat it, a bit. Stole the copper mine from Poopdeck, let Poopdeck work a Sanitation-boosted farm instead. Poopdeck really wants to grow a bit, so that it's working all its tiles and a bunch of specialists besides - and Sanitation lets us do so.

Good call...though I think you stole the Gold mine not the Copper.

Yeah, we want Poopdeck a bit bigger, but we don't want to hire any more specs here until our next GP is out. The Shrine is going to help us a lot.

Eh? You're ignoring the galley, aren't you? Or should we skip the offshore pearl site after all?

I suppose now that we can build culture, you've a point that the wheat is more important. I'll turn the settler around next turn. Just need to get a little bit more scouting done, so we can pick the right tile to settle .

We'll want the galley....and some cities in the middle. But yeah, building culture lets us forgo the galley and semi blind city site. Build order in Corn/Copper/Pearls should be: Culture (working Copper), WB (working improved Corn, cash rushed with one turn of hammers).....then either Lighthouse, WB (for a cove) or a Galley. WB/Lighthouse is best for city growth, Galley after 1st wb gets us the best intel fastest. I don't think we'll have the cash to rush the Galley without sacrificing a WB/NY in our core, but we'll grow fast on the Corn and can build one in reasonable time with Corn/Copper/other improved tiles.


Grabbing that Wheat will be very nice.....by t105/106 Mainmast can be size 20 and actually working all of it's tiles (somewhere around 120 base commerce + the Brewerey)

We should be able to pry a worker or two loose (plus at least one Warrior for garrison duty) in time to meet up with one of either Ferry or the newest Galley.

Speaking of Ferry....we'll finish the Mine (and chop) in Ballast on t101 and have a worker available to move. It should get onto Ferry to go and improve the Sheep near Keel. We want that health on line soon.

Ooh, I like that idea a lot. Str 9 (with Iron), huge fire resistance, he could lead the way against whichever of those we need to face first.

:hat:

Everything else, consider me essentially in agreement. I might quibble over a detail here or there.

The main thing on my mind is, whether it's worth turning the slider up a notch to get to Religious Law and Iron Working a tad sooner. Probably not, though, we want to rush too much in our coastal cities to get those 3/1/3 tiles 'improved' via buildings. Especially to get them improved in time to benefit from the GA.

I'd leave the slider where it is for the moment. Back of the envelope math says we'll be wanting about 600 gold for the NYs in Mizzen and Topsail plus 6 rushed WBs for the Pearls and 5 Coves at around 45-50 gold each over the next 6 turns. Plus the CP in Hold (circa 150 gold).

We'll be a bit short on that I think, so figure 7 turns....which puts us teching Priesthood. At that point we might dial up the slider a notch in order to ensure we get to RL in time, but I think we should be ok. We'll be adding a lot of commerce in that time due to city growth, new Coves, swapping Ballast from hammer tiles to Sea tiles ect. We'll fine tune things as we go, but for the moment....let's keep the gold a comin'.

[Mardoc]

It was actually the plains hill mine that I stole for Hold. I'm not sure it gives it back, even with the border pop; we'd really like to run those hammers through the Heroic Epic, no? And if we do it right, Hold ought to be growing by the time we have other improved tiles in its new radius available to work.

Played T101 this morning, in hopes of turns moving fast enough to get people excited again . Also, it helped that we'd just finished hashing out a short term plan; I think I followed it pretty much completely, except that I moved the Winch workers before I remembered they were supposed to be camping Deer next turn; instead they put some time into a workshop. Both things we'll want, just the wrong order.

Drama came in, we put Culture into four queues, and got three EOT border pops as a result. Smelting is of course next.

Agreed with not hiring more specialists until we've our guaranteed shrine, but Poopdeck needs to grow now if it's to hire specialists in 5 turns and still work all the relevant tiles. I figure when farming for golden ages, we just want to have all the specs we can, right?

Heron Throne is now in the 'should be done next turn if not stolen' stage . Meanwhile the other islands are still growing strong. Worker is next to the sheep, as recommended; he'll unload next turn, then Ferry will head east to grab the next settling group. These cities are getting close to being net producers for the empire, instead of net consumers. Although no, they're not there yet, given the stuff we'll be rushing in the next few turns . Of course the advantage of these cities is that they're already close to done with their worker support; Jib Boom has just 2 more unimproved BFC tiles; Ballast and Kell have more, but I'm sure they're countable. Given that we're running with 12 workers for now 13 cities, that's an important detail.

We settled two cities on T101 - the incense city is now ours (...I forget the name), as is the pearl/copper city (Crow's Nest). Both should take off pretty darn quickly, due to the worker/workboat/cash rush support we're giving them. The last settler is heading back to the outer coast; next turn I need to pick a rendezvous tile and get that coterie assembling. I think I'm going to have Pearl/copper focus on growing quickly, so workboats will come before the galley. Because honestly, we want to be able to build a navy from here, not just explorers.

So that leaves us with only one settler on the board . And none in queue . I know that'll change shortly, once we get a few more workers, but it's still unfortunate. Even though I also know there's no point in settling cities we can't provide worker/workboat/rushing support to, and right now that's being consumed entirely by the two new cities plus the islands.

Finally, something amusing. According to someone's Survey of the World, we're currently the 3rd largest empire . Presumably that's because so much of our area is coast tiles. But maybe someone's overexpanded? That'd be hard to do with land this lush.

[NobleHelium]

Thoth I detect a growing use of the smiley from you lately. I think Mardoc is rubbing off on you.

[Thoth]

It was actually the plains hill mine that I stole for Hold. I'm not sure it gives it back, even with the border pop; we'd really like to run those hammers through the Heroic Epic, no? And if we do it right, Hold ought to be growing by the time we have other improved tiles in its new radius available to work.

Yeah, took a quick peek at the save and saw it was the PH mine. We do want to give it back next turn (102). Poopdeck doesn't have another tile worth working (and the extra hammers here are useful). Hold has plenty of room to grow yet, it can work some forested Grass tiles (including a forested Grass Deer IIRC) and grow a bit. With the GA they're good yeild tiles and we should still be able to push out a Horseman a turn. (Please tell me you remembered to rush the Command Post here this turn? And the WB in Keel....)

Played T101 this morning, in hopes of turns moving fast enough to get people excited again . Also, it helped that we'd just finished hashing out a short term plan; I think I followed it pretty much completely, except that I moved the Winch workers before I remembered they were supposed to be camping Deer next turn; instead they put some time into a workshop. Both things we'll want, just the wrong order.

Drama came in, we put Culture into four queues, and got three EOT border pops as a result. Smelting is of course next.

4 Queues? Winch, Bilge, Pearl City and ???

Agreed with not hiring more specialists until we've our guaranteed shrine, but Poopdeck needs to grow now if it's to hire specialists in 5 turns and still work all the relevant tiles. I figure when farming for golden ages, we just want to have all the specs we can, right?

Yes, the more the merrier once we have the shrine. I'd go for max scientists + merchant and then Priests. We'll always have Priest and GC GPP in the pool so we can guarantee one or the other, but we need either a sage, merchant or Artist to go with the Priest/GC.

Heron Throne is now in the 'should be done next turn if not stolen' stage . Meanwhile the other islands are still growing strong. Worker is next to the sheep, as recommended; he'll unload next turn, then Ferry will head east to grab the next settling group. These cities are getting close to being net producers for the empire, instead of net consumers. Although no, they're not there yet, given the stuff we'll be rushing in the next few turns . Of course the advantage of these cities is that they're already close to done with their worker support; Jib Boom has just 2 more unimproved BFC tiles; Ballast and Kell have more, but I'm sure they're countable. Given that we're running with 12 workers for now 13 cities, that's an important detail.

Island cities are setting up fast, but we're up to a few more than 12 workers I believe, with a couple more due in the next couple of turns. IIRC we should be up to 17/18 workers by t104. And given how few worker turns it takes to improve a coast tile....we should be good with that many.

So that leaves us with only one settler on the board . And none in queue . I know that'll change shortly, once we get a few more workers, but it's still unfortunate. Even though I also know there's no point in settling cities we can't provide worker/workboat/rushing support to, and right now that's being consumed entirely by the two new cities plus the islands.

Post IW settlers will be coming fast an furious from Mizzen and Topsail. And the few turns delay lets our current workforce put the final touches on our core improvements before heading off to improve new cities.

Nothing to worry about here. It's t101 and we just settled cities 12 and 13. We're doing ok expansion wise.

Finally, something amusing. According to someone's Survey of the World, we're currently the 3rd largest empire . Presumably that's because so much of our area is coast tiles. But maybe someone's overexpanded? That'd be hard to do with land this lush.

Nah, we're just the only ones with a Fetish for Seaside cities....and everyone else has a good reason for avoiding Coastal cities as much as possible.

[Thoth]

Thoth I detect a growing use of the smiley from you lately. I think Mardoc is rubbing off on you.

Nonsense.


Though I'd rather some of my warlike tendencies rubbed off on Mardoc and we start seeing some more use of the smiley from him.

[Thoth]

Oh, and BTW Mardoc....When I'm on evenings (like I am this week) I'm usually up until midnight or so. If the turn comes in late do you want me to play it? Or just let it ride until the next day?

Tracker shows that Uberfish has the save so we're not likely to see it tonight I think.

[Mardoc]

Yeah, took a quick peek at the save and saw it was the PH mine. We do want to give it back next turn (102). Poopdeck doesn't have another tile worth working (and the extra hammers here are useful). Hold has plenty of room to grow yet, it can work some forested Grass tiles (including a forested Grass Deer IIRC) and grow a bit. With the GA they're good yeild tiles and we should still be able to push out a Horseman a turn. (Please tell me you remembered to rush the Command Post here this turn? And the WB in Keel....)

Hmm, ok. I suppose Poopdeck can be useful for something other than just GPP, if it has hammers.

Yep, rushed those. Left the slider at 70%, too, since we were broke afterward, and we have stuff to rush next turn almost certainly.

4 Queues? Winch, Bilge, Pearl City and ???

Um. Maybe it was just three. I know we got three border pops, and Pearl didn't pop, but on reflection the last one may have been Hold's Epic doing the work. That's one problem with playing the turn, rushing out the door, and updating from work later as I have time.

Island cities are setting up fast, but we're up to a few more than 12 workers I believe, with a couple more due in the next couple of turns. IIRC we should be up to 17/18 workers by t104. And given how few worker turns it takes to improve a coast tile....we should be good with that many.

Yeah, I'm not yet worried about workers, and we have some in the queues, so we should be fine. In fact, if anything, that seems to call for more emphasis on settlers . But yes, other than Winch, I think all our cities are working only improved tiles (or coast, which basically counts), so by definition we have enough workers. And Winch is almost caught up.

Nothing to worry about here. It's t101 and we just settled cities 12 and 13. We're doing ok expansion wise.

Yes, I know, we're still probably number one in cities. I just want more!

I know that it would hurt more to see the cities burn, but every hammer into a sword instead of a settler is a tad bit painful

Mostly my talk about 'yeah, we still need to make workers and workboats and lighthouses and junk' is intended to convince myself that we shouldn't have 13 settlers in queue, alright?

Nah, we're just the only ones with a Fetish for Seaside cities....and everyone else has a good reason for avoiding Coastal cities as much as possible.

I hadn't really considered the 'defend against the pirates' angle . Makes sense, though.

Oh, and BTW Mardoc....When I'm on evenings (like I am this week) I'm usually up until midnight or so. If the turn comes in late do you want me to play it? Or just let it ride until the next day?

Tracker shows that Uberfish has the save so we're not likely to see it tonight I think.

Sunday through Wednesday nights, if it comes in late (that is, after ~10), I'd appreciate you covering it. I have half my Fridays off, and weekends I can also usually get it in the morning no problem, but when I have work in the morning, it would be nice to avoid that 18 hour delay.

It does look as though, yet again, playing in the morning failed to result in a 2-turn day .

[Thoth]

Hmm, ok. I suppose Poopdeck can be useful for something other than just GPP, if it has hammers.

Oh yes....like those two Missionaries in the queue....and a bit more infra

Yep, rushed those. Left the slider at 70%, too, since we were broke afterward, and we have stuff to rush next turn almost certainly.

Cool. We'll want another WB in Keel in 2t plus the Pearl WB ASAP, other than that....hang onto that gold for rushing our NYs.

Um. Maybe it was just three. I know we got three border pops, and Pearl didn't pop, but on reflection the last one may have been Hold's Epic doing the work. That's one problem with playing the turn, rushing out the door, and updating from work later as I have time.

Yeah, Hold was due to pop this turn from HE culture.

Yeah, I'm not yet worried about workers, and we have some in the queues, so we should be fine. In fact, if anything, that seems to call for more emphasis on settlers . But yes, other than Winch, I think all our cities are working only improved tiles (or coast, which basically counts), so by definition we have enough workers. And Winch is almost caught up.

If by settlers, you mean "more war toys to defend our cities" then I'm in full agreement.

We'll have two excellent settler pumps online with Mizzen and Topsail getting their NYs. That's plenty to keep us expanding.

Yes, I know, we're still probably number one in cities. I just want more!

I know that it would hurt more to see the cities burn, but every hammer into a sword instead of a settler is a tad bit painful

I think you have the order of Sword and Settler backwards in that sentence.

Mostly my talk about 'yeah, we still need to make workers and workboats and lighthouses and junk' is intended to convince myself that we shouldn't have 13 settlers in queue, alright?

Mardoc, we've been blowing away the economic demographics for some time now. I guarantee you 100% that we are on *everyone's* "wanna kill ASAP" list.

I hadn't really considered the 'defend against the pirates' angle . Makes sense, though.

I gave it a lot of thought in III. There were some very good reasons why I only settled 3 coastal sites in that game. And most of those had to do with the Lanun.

Sunday through Wednesday nights, if it comes in late (that is, after ~10), I'd appreciate you covering it. I have half my Fridays off, and weekends I can also usually get it in the morning no problem, but when I have work in the morning, it would be nice to avoid that 18 hour delay.
[quote]

NP, though I'm back on days (for two weeks starting next week).

[quote]
It does look as though, yet again, playing in the morning failed to result in a 2-turn day .

Not sure what timezone Uber is in, but I'm up for another hour or so...maybe...just maybe....tracker is currently giving me a "no input file specified" message, which it wasn't an hour or two ago.