[SPOILERS]The Serdoa way of civ

[Krill]

According to Locke:

I think we've moved beyond this point.

I think we (as a forum) have dragged some players kicking and screaming to a new metagame.

[scooter]

I think we (as a forum) have dragged some players kicking and screaming to a new metagame.

This is probably more a factor of the new trend of seeing the start before you pick. Picking purely based off starting techs is risky when you don't know your start, but when you can look at it and plan exactly how to play it, going by starting techs has a lot more merit.

[Serdoa]

That certainly has to do with it scooter, I would agree. If you know you have 2 Deer, 1 Ivory starting with Hunting becomes much more appealing. In our case here starting with Agri and Mining would have been my top-pick for easiest setup - but I somehow didn't want to play with China. Though Agri was absolutely needed in my opinion for this start, so I looked at the next best combination Agri/Wheel. And there it was between Sumeria and France (and Ottomans). As I said before I don't want to pick for the UU, so France was out. Left Ottomans and Sumeria. And there I felt that the Ziggurat would actually provide me more options (being able to settle more land earlier as I don't need to wait for CoL and Currency under all circumstances).

Though I am certain not picking Inca (or FIN/EXP) will be laughed at in the lurker-thread. But I really am not to keen to start with a turn delay and I don't think my worker micro is actually good enough to get in all new cities a Terrace chopped right away. And that - for me - takes much away from Inca. But thats certainly part of my playstyle (and lack of skill) and has nothing to do with how good or bad certain civs really are.

[Krill]

Technically Ag/Wheel is relative better when you don't know the start though, compared to picking Hunting or Myst.

[Serdoa]

Well, I should haven taken China I guess - at least when one only looks at the start phase. Some pretty early settlers possible.

Anyhow, I played the first turn, overview picture below in spoilers

And yes, that seems to be ice/snow in the bottom part in the middle. Also, moving would have provided a capital with at least 14 grassland river tiles. I wonder if anyone does that, it certainly is visible if you move the scout like I did. But you do lose another turn, the plains-hill-settle and some much needed production capacity in the early turns. Might pay off - I'm not good enough at this game to be certain about that. Thats why I stayed where I was.

[Serdoa]

Started with AH, Worker. Finished AH this turn, Horses nearby and easily to be got with the second city. Nicolae is also nearby. I will need spears soon, as he certainly will show up with War Chariots soon. At least thats what I would do, get some WC and see if I can poke my opposition. Also means I need to cover my workers... bah.

Also Stone was found. I guess I have to think about Pyramids.

[NobleHelium]

Screenshots?

[Serdoa]

Only one, overview from T5. You see the Stone already. Just imagine Nicolae being 6 tiles in the north of it.

Thats also exactly below my capital of course, due to the mirroring. Depending on the land I might be able to settle it with my 3rd city (if there is a landbridge to it, even with the 2nd, though I still think I'd rather have a stronger city first, it is not like I'll build Pyramids right away).

As for the land itself. Directly NE looks not bad (Deer, Gems and Horses are 1SW of the Deer). Not much food res though. But thats everywhere the same. Unfortunately for the Stone I really should settle southwards. That Corn west of the Stone might do, but I'd really like to settle closer for my 2nd city. We'll see when I have more knowledge of the land.

What else? Ah, C&D:

So, Novice settled T3, Seven and Nicolae T5 and Mackoti T4. They all started on AH except for Seven who needs to research Agri first. Seven also misplayed the first turn, working the Sheep instead of the Corn (I guess he misclicked it?). Everyone builds a Worker I would guess, though Seven could theoretically build a Warrior. We'll know for certain next turn, but honestly, I would not see a reason why he would.

Novice worked this turn (T7) the first time the Oasis. Before he worked a 1/2/0 tile to get the EXP-bonus, but after 5 turns he doesn't need to any longer as he will still finish it in 2 more turns, even if he works on those turns the Oasis. Gets some more research (4 beakers) and loses 1 hammer (the other hammer of overflow would be lost due to the 25% bonus for the worker). Guess thats a fair trade.

In research-times, Novice will finish AH EOT9, Seven Agri EOT8, Nicolae AH EOT11 and Mackoti AH EOT10.

And thats it with C&D as of now.

[BRickAstley]

How goes it?

[Serdoa]

Well, all goes according to plan. Though I guess that's to be expected at turn 12. I'm sorry if you guys miss updates, but I'm certain everyone who followed any of my PBEMs knows by now that I am not that interested to report the first few turns when nothing is happening. "I moved the scout another 2 tiles"... wohoo. Thats imo neither great fun to write nor to read. And also not really interesting. I am unfortunately not able to make it sound more fun or interesting either.

But, I've got to a point were I think I do actually have something interesting to tell. Several things even. But let's start with an overview shot at T12.



As can be seen, I found not only Stone but also Marble. That's good - if I can get them, as it actually makes my trait even better by making it easier to build several wonders quickly - and bad - if others get them before me, as then they have for certain wonders basically double IND and my trait is a waste. Also looking at the map I think with a city on the Sugar I should then be able to plant two more cities (one 3S,2W from that position, one 4E) to get both resources. Unfortunately I don't know yet where copper is. And horses are also the other direction. Thats at least one, maybe even two, more cities to plant. That gets the total cities, to be planted immediately, to five.

Five cities is probably the maximum I can plant before Currency / Bureau. Especially as only one of them would be a commerce city it seems. So thats kinda not so cool. Also, I don't want to plant weak cities just for Stone or Marble. The pig at the Stone-site is jungled though, so it is a weak site, at least till IW. Marble I am not certain right now, but it seems that there is just a cow.

So yeah, there is my first problem right now: where to build the cities? And I don't have that much time left to decide, my first settler will soon be finished. And soon means sooner than T20 (for all of you who counted from the actual turn number and the picture ).

My second problem: I am not sure in which way to go technologically. It seems obvious at first that I would go for Priesthood and build the Oracle. That of course means to settle some strong production city soon. But that will delay CS and probably make my first GP a GP. I'd probably should rather try to find a spot for a strong commerce city (above the capital probably from the looks of it right now), get a GS for an academy and get CS for Bureau. I think that would be the overall stronger play but of course would make my pick of Sumeria a pretty laughable one (I mean all Sumeria has going for it is the Ziggurat, otherwise I could have take China which would have been better in regards of the starting techs). Also, if I go for the Oracle-play, in which direction do I go from there? I could research the other religious techs and get Theology and then bulb Divine Right with the GP I should certainly get. Build AP and Spiral Minarett, research Paper and get the UoS. Every city getting an cheap temple (with Forge, Org. Rel and SPI it costs just 22 base hammers) and a monastery. That together with the Ziggurat should make all cities immediately profitable. And expansion is limited on this map anyhow, so I should not fall too much behind by getting that kind of infrastructure, simply because you can't expand all the time (except for Seven maybe as soon as he gets CoL). I probably would just have some less workers (Hagia Sophia? it is available at Theology as well) and less military. Something I might be able to work around with. Thing is of course that the inflated score due to wonders is easily getting one dogpiled, even in AW.

Also, I have to consider what happens with the wonders in the upper part of the tree (Paya, GLib) as those will easily fall to others if I concentrate on a relatively deep beeline with several wonders + necessary infrastructure.

So, I'm not certain. I think the pure commerce-way is probably better (WAY!!! less hammer investment), with maybe some wonders woven in. Especially as the religious wonders I don't think fall all that quickly normally anyway, so I can go a rather strict commerce route and clean them up later on. And having a strong economy is necessary anyway, to actually get to the techs first, as that is more important than having IND.

Thinking about it, there is also MoM, which I certainly would like to get. Oh well, lets just build again all the wonders of the world...