RB Pitboss #1 SPOILERS - Mansa Musa of Spain

[sunrise089]

Arggggggh - Unbelievable frustration that I even deserve due to hubris on my part

On the other hand - what the heck Exploit?! When the last minute of the turn has come and others are obviously waiting for perfect timing, you don't pause the timer. EVER.

EDIT: If Exploit has any sense and any workers available he will use the 15 or so cats in his city to hit my 34 UNPROMOTED rifles in the open on flat land and then kill every unit. Yes he will then loose his city and all of those units, but 1:1 kills is a lot better than he would do otherwise.

[Rowain]

However while I may have brought my friends in-game to my fight, at least I didn't have to bring my out-of-game friends in to break up the mean and scary alliance organized against me.

This is a bit unfair to exploit afterall Kodi has announced his wanting to leave a long time ago so you all had time and time again to recruit a replacement. He has managed to do it and now you criticize him for that?

[Krill]

Where did you move them sunrise?

[sunrise089]

Where did you move them sunrise?

1S of where they were supposed to go. There is a slight chance the tile our main stack is on will flip to Dreylin when/if KK dies and I can catch up, but I don't think it will.

This is a bit unfair to exploit afterall Kodi has announced his wanting to leave a long time ago so you all had time and time again to recruit a replacement. He has managed to do it and now you criticize him for that?

That's true, and I admit getting subs is a very imperfect process. However when Elkad, Yaz, dsp, etc have subbed into pitboss games they have made an effort to honor previous alliances and agreements. I initially gave dler the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't respond to email, didn't try to chat in-game, and almost immediately switched sides to ally with Inca. I find it very hard to believe dler came into the game with an open mind. Surely we can all agree that even a long pause is superior to bringing in the wrong player.

The analogy I've made is whether people would think it was kosher for India to grab one of Speaker's clanmates and have him take over Greece.

EDIT: I rest my case:

FYI, Dler will be joining me in running the Sumerian civ.

[Rowain]

That's true, and I admit getting subs is a very imperfect process. However when Elkad, Yaz, dsp, etc have subbed into pitboss games they have made an effort to honor previous alliances and agreements. I initially gave dler the benefit of the doubt, but he didn't respond to email, didn't try to chat in-game, and almost immediately switched sides to ally with Inca. I find it very hard to believe dler came into the game with an open mind.

If you critizes Dler I have no problem with it I just found the attack on Exploit a bit unfair especially as there has been a long time without a successfull find for Kodii.

Surely we can all agree that even a long pause is superior to bringing in the wrong player.

Depends what if the game falls into eternal sleep thanks to this pause. Where there not a long almost gameending pause here already?

The analogy I've made is whether people would think it was kosher for India to grab one of Speaker's clanmates and have him take over Greece.

I guess you mean Inca and PB2 and get your point. But still better that than an endless pause. The problem is nearly everyone interested is already so spoiled that it is extremly difficult to get replacements.


Besides I doubt this move saves any of Exploit/Dler as long as your coalition remains intact.

[sunrise089]

Thankfully Exploit didn't attack out. Instead he lost ~65 units. We lost 14

Infantry will make things much tougher soon, but at least the first battle went well.

[Speaker]

I guess you mean Inca and PB2 and get your point. But still better that than an endless pause.

I could easily get one of my friends to sub into RBPB2, but I have refrained, for exactly this reason.

[sunrise089]

Game-long NAP (well on my end ) with the Lins:

*Lin and the Spanish Free State agree to a non-aggression pact for the duration of the game.
*The Spanish Free State agrees to not attempt to win the game through Conquest, Domination, Cultural, or Space victory.
*Lin agrees to gift the city of Banana Split to the Spanish Free State
*The normal NAP provision of no hostile ROP applies, except as below.
*Spanish Free State perma-trades banana and dyes to Lin in exchange for up to 2 available non-strategic resources TBD
*EXCEPTIONS -
a) Should Lin wage war against another civilization currently under a game-long NAP with the Spanish Free State, or should another civilization currently under a game-long NAP with the Spanish Free State wage war against Lin, the ROP provision shall be suspended upon the declaration of war (no hostile troops may enter Spanish territory before the DoW however).
b) During the duration of such a war, the Spanish Free State shall gift to Lin not less than 1/3 of all net gold production each turn.

[sunrise089]

Chat with Broker:

me: hi broker

you're up late

Paul: well was just getting ready to head for bed but can wait a few

saw your email that was interesting

me: RIGHT

sorry, caps

yeah, i dont want to give the wrong idea...I'm not alliance shopping, but I also feel like regoarrarr is being a bit more hawkish than I am and therefore the reasons to not trade with him might be different than the reasons to not trade with me

(which is a bit different from outright military action, which I understand may be lumped together)

Paul: I understand but there may be a point where I need to embargo regro and it would be easier if you also embargoed him

me: right, and I will admit, as of the current turn it's difficult to envision a situation where I will withhold gold from regoarrarr unless someone successfully forces me to do so

BUT I can envision a situation (perhaps something more short term?) where a tech may not be harmful for me to have but would be harmful for regoarrarr to have....for instance a military tech if you wernt planning on invading me

anyways, I don't have a concrete proposal, both because I'm not ready to formally join some other group and because I'm not even sure how the next round of tech discoveries will go

BUT I will be likely producing ~150gpt in excess of regoarrarr

*regoarrarr's needs, and my hope would be to find some beneficial arangement to make use of that

Paul: That would allow lins to also research while financing my research

allow some non military techs to be focused on.

me: right, that was my thought

Paul: I also have no concrete proposals but am willing to discuss options

me: for instance, one concrete thing is democracy, which I think the Lins may already be on

it's a non-military tech, regoarrarr doesn't really want it, I do, and it isn't too expensive

so if providing a certain quantity of gold gets me democracy faster than via India I have no problem making such a deal, which could be as simple as XXX gold for the tech

Paul: Ok I can see that working out. I have no problem trading regro 1v1 for techs but any extras I dont see that we need to be that frendly with the trading

me: that makes sense to me

ok, well if you want to talk to the Lins (who appear to me to be working closely with you, but I don't really know...) and see if they want to sell me democracy (I can also promise to not try for the Statue if that's a concern) and find out their price, I'd be appreciative

Paul: Yeah I will talk to them

me: I can also ask dreylin directly of course, but I dont know if you will want to discuss the impact of the tech or gold between you guys

past democracy, I don't know your tech plans nor believe I'm entitled to be kept informed of them, but the principle that I'm open to trying to buy techs I won't receive from India remains

Paul: Ok will keep that in mind. I will be grabing radio for Cristo. getting tired of anarchy

me: do you know dsp

sorry

do you know dsp's next tech courtesy of your EP or diplomacy?

Paul: yeah radio 2 turn after me

me: I think he may be going for radio too...perhaps he will try to contest the wonder

oh, there you go

Paul: unless he has an engineer I should beat him to cristo

me: then I think you'll get it - I dont think he has an engineer (though I really don't know)

Paul: not that I have seen and he just poped a scientist recently

me: well that's good, I think I still prefer you getting wonders to dsp

scientist from Physics, or a different one?

Paul: different one. I traded a profit for the physics one

me: ok

also, you have a shrine, right?

Paul: Yeah for a long time now

could have built the second but christianity isnt spread so dont see the point this late

me: we should consider misionary trades then - seems an example of at least pulling ahead of the third bloc

right, same with the Jewish shrine for me

Paul: yours is spread alot more than mine. I sent you one while ago but you said it failed

me: right

yeah, it failed in a city with only 1 religion IIRC

Paul: sheesh what are the odds

me: lioke 10% or lower it seems

seems to only get bad once there are 3-4 in the city

Paul: once a space ship part is built it is safe from nukes and such right

me: yes, that's my undersrtanding

in civ 4 I THINK you win unless your entire civ is eleminated before the ship arrives

Paul: and culture vs nuke just makes taking that city easier dosent drop the culture

me: i think that's right, but it can kill buildings

i personally would support an anti-nuke treaty amongst all the civs

Paul: may be the only way to stop a win though

me: if we dont get one, I would suspect once the UN is built the anti-nuke bad will pass that way

Paul: if you already have them when the ban goes in effect what happens?

me: i believe you cant make any more

so the ICBMs would be fixed at the current number

Paul: interesting

never expected to be this high this late so trying to come up with an end game plan

me: see, I don't need to

goal 1 (Inca not winning) accomplished, goal 2 (survive to end) still in doubt

Paul: I dont see you getting killed actually

me: maybe not, depends on how big a war happens

Paul: unless regro does it lins and I arent interested

me: I agree that I would think I could normally be left alive

not the least bit because I'm willing to sign "not win via XXX conditions" into NAPs

but it's always possible someone will try to win by conquest and actually not fail

Paul: Although we could always point a gun at your head to have you cut off regro

that was a joke

me: it's true, I always consider the possibility

my goal is to make me valuable enough alive and friendly to at least make it more appealing to attack India directly

I have the luxury of not needing to make myself totally unappealing to attack, just LESS appealing

Paul: Well we have discussed that before. You are the acheles heel. If your funding stopped there would be no reason to attack you

but we arent there now

me: right, but it also remains true that if regoarrarr lost lots of his land my funding wouldnt be anything to worry about

the open question is whether it's much easier to cut off my funding than it is to just remove some of regoarrarr's land

Paul: true but one is far easier than the other

me: right, but we may disagree about which one is the easier one

Paul: true wouldnt want to try waring against you. Kodi and Dler were not of your caliber

although I am not a schlep with tactics just with this particular games nuances

spent about 10 turns setting up Kodi for the capital raze

fent left , stop, feint left, stop feint N stop, feint left, stop, feint left....blitz

me: well I don't know how'd I'd do, I don't make light of any of my rivals' abilities

Paul: No problems would raher work with you any day

its a game though

me: right

ok, well anyways I said my peice

thanks for waiting up to talk

Paul: Thanks I am sure we can work something out

going to bed now

Night

me: see ya

The most important note to me is that like Exploit Broker believes regoarrarr can largely be neutralized by removing my gold-generating capacity. I continue to think this is something of a mistake, barring some sort of paratrooper or Commando-unit. My capital is responsible for almost all of my gold-generation. It seems much easier to at least capture border Indian cities strung across the map than it does to march 10 tiles through my land at attack my cap. Of course I can't defeat DSP + Broker's armies all at once, but I don't think regoarrarr could maintain his cities and research capacity against those armies either.

All bravado aside, I wonder if the very successful wars against exploit and dler have made people forget the inherent advantages to the defender at this point in the game. To the best of my knowledge the only attacking army in the game to have faced significant siege opposition was Imhotep's, which was handily defeated despite being in defensive terrain. If Dreylin honors our NAP and Broker tries to attack me alone with only a 50% larger army I believe he will suffer considerable casualties. If he comes in with allies and in force I'll loose, but my best defense seems to be trying to keep multiple allies, which is exactly what I'm trying to do.

[sunrise089]

Real news: I have NAPs with Broker (game-long), Dreylin (game-long), and Elkad (10t cool down w/ no 3rd party ROP) so my borders are 100% secure assuming no player breaks their word. The biggest tactical threats I can see come from either Persian paratroopers or a double-move along the lake regoarrarr and I share where Shady plants EOT and cash-rushes a transport, then loads and attacks the next turn. Game mechanic questions: can units auto-loaded on a ship attack the same turn?

Also, check out the gold-per-turn: