[pb40 spoiler] Götterdämmerung: Destruction Is The Masses' Entertainment

[Coeurva]

Re trade routes, while we have enforced peace with Inca, we can establish trade by roading the currently-neutral hill 22 of Nobiskrug, which I want to chop later anyway (see Canoel screenshot above). OB give an "excuse" for that road to exist, which could well be used by praetorians later (unlikely that he chops the deer). Sailing will probably not establish a Charrioute and isn't needed for MSci or Zulu, so I'd defer its research until we know whether the Arctic land is good (or exists in the first place).

Re techs, I think that if we pick Maths, we wouldn't haven't gained much over shallow_thought; we would just have completed a rather expensive Maths bulb. Better to ensure our mines stay productive, and we're barely positioned to profit off the chop bonus right away, but in ~10t we'll have second-ring borders at Mun and X6 to bring about 12 new forests into the fold. Another question is how soon we get IW; but that decision should probably be made only after Maths->Currency. Could certainly delay Calendar and MC for it, though.

An idea I've had today is to tech Masonry now, 2-whip the settler Rungholt is building, plant X7 on stone as you originally suggested, and aim to make Stonehenge in Nobiskrug. At size3, it can make 10hpt before stone and will have one forest to chop; generating failgold wouldn't be bad, either, but completing the wonder would allow it to dominate Geneva with culture. Canoel can supply N with military units if needed. Possibly too aggressive? Going by his current MFG, MSci might also be attempting Stonehenge right now.

Agree that I should have chosen to put V's hammers into an axe, not a spear. While I think MSci might want to probe our western cities with chariots (he's seen nothing but warriors), particularly if superdeath attacks us, we don't need to whip a spear against him just yet. What we can also whip next turn is an enqueued worker, by the way, if Charriu decides not to interfere with our settler (this was the plan before the latest turn's events).

I'm concerned that superdeath, if he isn't able to repair his economy somewhat, will see that as more of an incentive to attack, figuring he'll lose in the long run anyhow. Looking at his GNP, he apparently makes something like 5gpt at 0% sci, but who knows, these costs could partially arise from impi already travelling beyond his borders, not only outrageous maintenance for a large number of smallish cities.

[OT4E]

Foreign trade routes dont bring extra commerce with civs you have just went out of war. As I understands the bonus comes from "suistained peace" and have a cap of 150% recovering by 3% each turn.

[Coeurva]

You're right. There is, however, a further 25% bonus to trade route income when the outgoing city is connected to the capital, and the base income from a trade route cannot exceed 1c before cities grow to size 12 upwards*. Combine that with the end result always getting floored, and it means that every turn of unbroken peace before or beyond 25t is worthless in practice at this stage of the game (i.e. we'd actually gain full value from trade routes with Zulu). Shame that I've nuked trade with MSci, but risking two workers on a dice roll would have been worse.

It's certainly an incentive to resolve the conflict with Charriu / RFS-81 without any declaration, though...

* Base value is max (1, min (p - 10, s * d)) where p is the outgoing city's population, d the plot distance between the cities. While p <= 11, this will always be 1. s is a worldsize-dependent modifier, 0.1 for Standard.

[Coeurva]

T71: everything happens at once.

First and least exciting of all (though relieving), we landed the Oracle and I took Alphabet. No regrets -- we don't get to build research immediately, but three of our cities will simultaneously be free to cover that front within 3t, for about 30bpt. No need to turn on research yet -- Masonry is only useful for Stonehenge right now; I want to avoid researching it if we can't land that wonder.

Civ4 is actually a game about Mexican stand-offs:


Turn order dictates that we end up with a foodless city, Charriu ends up with a plains hill goldless city, and RFS-81 ends up with nothing. Had we not founded on this tile, we would have lost out instead (Charriu settling would invalidate the RFS site regardless, but we can never culturally compete for the rice anyway, thus no point in going 1E with the settler). It makes me believe that there isn't much gold on the map, because surely we wouldn't all rush the same site in that case. Schilda costs 3gpt in maintenance and has exactly one reason to exist; beyond that, it has the problem of being simultaneously a great border city (won't mean much if razed) and a terrible border city (unable to produce its own defenses).

I moved the workers onto the desert hill because I expect RFS to declare and step onto the gold while moving his settler somewhere safe from the Charriut. Yeah, we might have been able to raze Charriu's rice city if he doesn't add units and found the better Schilda later, but let's try to get along with him. CKN counter praets down the line but we shouldn't be vulnerable when he reaches Machinery; beware a Great Engineer strategy from him, though.

Also the Schilda joke works best if the citizens are so proud of their town hall that they forgot the windows food resource. Moving on. Thanks in part due to the Barracks being a UNESCO World Heritage Site or something (double culture) in addition to Canoel being a holy city, we have now obtained vision on (and passage to) the glorious Arctic shore:


TROLLED BY COMMODORE

...maybe? Also note the apparently perma-orphaned fish. I'm still sending a work boat. This can't be the whole story (maybe there's first-ring seafood in the fog?); even if it is, meh, then we have a boat. You can load CR praets on a work boat, right? (More seriously it can improve the fish at Nobiskrug.)


Furthermore, we're getting attacked by another barb spear (and yet another warrior 96 of Munsalvaesche, but I've become desensitized to that). I've whipped the spear in Venusberg rather begrudgingly, because I don't want that cottage pillaged (axe would come too late, since it has 0 hammers in the box). The strange micro of Munsalvaesche itself (not working the farm this turn) is meant to finish the barracks (and thus obtain the second ring forests) 1t earlier and without much OF or any whips, so that we can grow partial-building an axe T72, then build 11hpt research at size 4.

I think I prefer to 1-whip Rungholt's settler -- working these cottages is more important (I've added a third) than an attempt at Stonehenge.


We've met the other game leader. Victory screen confirms that he has about as much total pop as we do. Diplomacy screen shows active peace treaties with MSci and superdeath from wars they have declared, possibly another reason for that corn/corn deal they have. There's also the borders of an RFS-81 city, which might make the wheat site more interesting for us; in any event, I've assigned all our EP to s_t because I care much more about his graphs than RFS-81's.



There's still some unworked food (Rungholt will whip, food would merely overflow as residual hammers, better to use the time to grow cottages: Munsal explained above) so I'm hopeful about our growth from here. GNP incorporates 13cpt from Buddhism and the Oracle, thus doesn't mean much.

superdeath apparently lost 4,000 soldiers (and a 1,000 pop point), likely to barbs since he's not at war with anyone. Pop shows shallow_thought's size7 capital, but I'm not sure if it's actually happy at this size (could be building a fh unit while unhappy to 2-whip it).

[OT4E]

How much time will it take to make SH in Schilda? Looks like it is the world most attractive place and the place where we need culture most of all.

[Coeurva]

That depends to some extent on what the Mongols do with their axe to disrupt micro. The earliest we can settle on the stone is T76 (requires a 2-whip; 1-whip settles 1t later, but Rungholt is thankful for it), and we can whip the Venusberg worker to end up with 4 workers chopping in the area (1 more is available to send over), but at the cost of not improving the gold mine first of all. It's very possible to start four chops on T75 and land Stonehenge eoT78, though. That said, I expect MSci (or perhaps s_t?) to finish the wonder any turn now; but basically the same management makes sense whether we pursue Henge or not -- I'll try to play for it.

Or we could grab second-ring via Buddhism, then use all these 8 Maths + stone forest chops to install the Pyramids in a front city that might never leave size1. You see, attackers will be deterred by the threat of auto-razing!

GWall might be reasonable if we miss Henge, actually. It's not much culture, but the effect is more useful than 1bpt at 50% breakeven from a library and it's still cheapish with stone.

[Coeurva]

Quick city tour --

Rungholt: currently settler 28/100h, 11fhpt => 2-whip t74 and regrow 2t, obviously more efficient than 1-whipping t76. Worker #6 is roading to ensure X7 gets founded on stone T76; if we miss Henge (Persia's current MFG is 37; graphs on everyone else show ~20-25 at most), we might want to pick a different site since there's no pressing need.

Canoel: currently happy-capped; t74 finishes wb for Nobis fish, starts building research briefly passing wheat to Rungholt, or might build another boat for Arctic trip and later X7 (this wb shouldn't go Arctic to avoid delaying fish; I reconsidered; finishing it now is still good because I want to build research only after swapping wheat for a pmine). Needs to hook up gold, but that can't be done before ~T78.

Venusberg: whipped worker 24/24f, 60/60h, who will improve Schilda (another worker from the north-east will build the final floodplains cottage). Slated to build the X8 settler at happy-capped size4 (needs gold), mostly so that other cities don't have to do it. Wheat city can get two jungled sugars in the second ring (screenshot next turn), but might be the new target for RFS-81's settling party, which is heading due westward (2 axes, 1 warrior, 3 workers, 1 settler). Despite that it's a good result for us in-game, spotting it this turn felt like watching Lady Godiva's ride (not good, in case this needs disambiguation).

Munsalvaesche: grow eot, partial build axe; t73 work plains cow/fp farm/gmine/pmine for 11hpt research. Happiness not an issue. The axe will get whipped at imminent regrowth to reinforce X7 against superdeath.

Nobiskrug: pops borders in 5t to pick up a 5f tile via work boat, what a coup. t73 finish a grass non-river cottage 1SW of the centre. t74 move onto hill, t75 road, 1 worker then chops and sticks around, 1 worker goes south-east roading to Venusberg. Or might move both workers as, after finishing the mentioned fishing boats and cottage, Nobis can take already-done improvements from Canoel anyway all the way to size6. Produces units (1 axe, then more archers) to guard the MSci border.

Schilda: Maybe Stonehenge if still available on ~t76, otherwise gold. In either case, chop barracks asap and then use 3 workers to improve gold (maybe even 4).

Overall strategy remains to balance landgrab with research builds for Maths->Currency, then we'll see. IW, MC, Calendar all have their merits (build praets / build a production base with happy-neutral forge whips / improve food and commerce).



superdeath gained 8 score points in the middle of t71 (a pop point) and immediately lost them again, but he shows no new cities -- so I think he might have razed the barb city on the lake. If so, that's great news; he would effectively have declined a forward base in an attack against us, and I wouldn't have wanted to capture it, either. Worst-case he razed it to plant his own city, of course. Our soldier score looks good for once. CY is densely packed at the top; the average is distorted by RFS-81 and MSci.

I'm not sure where that Rival Best GNP comes from -- a tech with two prereqs? (Masonry? surely s_t has Writing; no wonders or religions fell)

[Bacchus]

Cities with wonders and shrines do not autoraze.

[Coeurva]

Not sure about shrines, but I ran a worldbuilder test (with RtR enabled) -- a city that never leaves size1 is not protected from autorazing even if it should contain Stonehenge, The Pyramids, The Parthenon and Angkor Wat.
edit: http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...s#pid46053

[Bacchus]

Very interesting, I wonder whether that changed in a later patch or something.