RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Krill]

There is such a thing as being so unlikely that it is the same as being impossible. There are so many mitigating factors that would prevent Jowy from pulling off that sequence that it is as good as impossible, not the least of which is the diplomacy necessary to do it. Kathlete and Jowy are very close now, and Kathlete is in a very commanding position given their excellent diplo and expansion while Jowy is whipping his cities into oblivion. And who is going to team up with Jowy? The Incans have a long-term NAP with the Ottomans and will likely be involved with a 2-sided war anyway between the Ottomans and Rome (which will make their alliance even stronger, and Rome more reticent still to team up against Kathlete). Danski hasn't shown that he has the wherewithal to bring down a major power, and the HRE isn't going to be much help regardless with Rome next door. So many weird things have to happen that you might as well say that Jowy will win because all of his opponents could spontaneously implode.

Possible, yes. Likely, not even close.

So your opinion is to just die, and give up playing? Or agree to vassalage and try to make someone else win?

That's one step above starting a game with a preset alliance hidden to everyone else, or agreeing to a "shared victory".

You should always try to play a good game of civ, and winning isn't everything, but making a mockery of a game is a shameful act.

[Axiis]

Hey now, I didn't say that at all. What I was saying was that Jowy's actions haven't put him in a significantly better position to win, and indeed may have cost him a better position in terms of civ development. Jowy should try his best to win, but I don't see it happening.

[Krill]

Hey now, I didn't say that at all. What I was saying was that Jowy's actions haven't put him in a significantly better position to win, and indeed may have cost him a better position in terms of civ development. Jowy should try his best to win, but I don't see it happening.

OK then, to cut a long story short...

Spullla posted before the war how they wanted to absorb Jowys' lands around about knights. Now, we can only speculate on what would have happened had Spullla not been invaded, but I'm pretty sure that Jowy would not have had pikes, maybe at most a few cats and ancient era units. I don;t think AK would have been in a much better position either, certainly not in the same league as Spullla.

So, in the alternate timeline, Jowy would have been left facing a tech, military, and economically superior foe, 1v1. They would likely not have gotten out of that alive, or even in a position to win the game. Spullla would have been too far in front, and even if a CoW was formed then, Spullla would be in a stronger position than they are now.

Yes, the current situation favours Whosit, Slave and AK much more than the alternate timeline, but Jowy, not knowing what Spullla had in store for him, decided to play it safe and try to control the situation while he still had some ability to do so. Which I think is pretty reasonable. Is he likely to win? No, but anyone starting next to Spullla are screwed compared to starting next to anyone else. I think he made a decent choice trying to deal with Spullla early, but he should have dealt with them much earlier IMO. So should Dantski - he could have gotten out 2 Skirms and choked Spullla into the ground from turn 20. That would have much better than the current situation.

For comparison purposes: look at regoarrarrs' argument for the dogpile on the Incans. I don't see anyone complaining that the dogpile there was a bad idea.

[Morgan]

- he could have gotten out 2 Skirms and choked Spullla into the ground from turn 20. That would have much better than the current situation.
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Could you imagine the rant sullla would have posted if that had happened

[Krill]

Yes, and I'd have paid good money to poke a stick into that hornets nest. No kidding.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, remember they said they would rather get eliminated early than late.

Really though this game is getting out of hand. I mean the whole 'Jowy should clock in at unreasonable hours to play this game' is a little silly.

[Shoot the Moon]

Well, remember they said they would rather get eliminated early than late.

Really though this game is getting out of hand. I mean the whole 'Jowy should clock in at unreasonable hours to play this game' is a little silly.

Jowy taking pot shots at Speaker in the IT thread isn't helping anything and, if anything, is making it less likely that Spulla will compromise. Both sides come out of this looking bad: Spulla for not being able to empathize with time zone and RL concerns and Jowy for the needless pot shots.

[antisocialmunky]

Probably not but it will make Speaker go all out and roll over Jowy in a few turns.

[Cyneheard]

And proof that Spullla has mismanaged their diplomacy:

Question is if I wanted to turn on CoW and work with India, would India simply attack me later when its convenient to them?

'Nuff said.

[Shoot the Moon]

I'd say that's as much a function of the map as it is diplomacy. With such cramped quarters, it is almost inevitable that conflict will arise, and that conflict only has two directions to go because of the map. You'll notice that the only neighbors that have really gotten along (Kathlete and the Incans and NaMoc and Dantski are the only neighbors so far not to go to war, and we'll see how long that lasts ) are ones where each has room to expand into the other way (Kathlete and Inca) or where they are warring elsewhere (Dantski and HRE). I'm not sure if Dantski feeling he would eventually be attacked has as much to do with diplomacy as simply reading the metagame correctly for this map.