RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Swiss Pauli]

I'm definitely with the mapmakers re food: surplus food creates possibilites, whereas as a dearth limits players' options. I'm actually a bit surprised that more teams didn't metagame the opening more: 'the mapmaker has made balanced starts, so if I move I can unbalance things (in my favour)'.

[Krill]

Depends, after LiPing decided to move I went back and looked at the starts properly, as I didn't have CIV access at all during the making of the map, and the mapview tool I was using displayed things in a funky manner.

Certain teams did actually have good moves to make. India, Rome, Pacal, Korea (2 wheats, massive cottage site, but not on a river) all had good reasons to move (assuming they moved scouts in the right direction for Greece). The rest didn't, or couldn't be sure. Now, I like metagaming and all, it gives an alternate view on proceedings, but I'm still going to look at a 2 food start and count my blessings, even if I do have to research Fishing. Moving is not certain to give me a strong enough start to overpower those that stayed where they were.

Some teams actually had damned good reasons to not move, ie those that were surrounded by hills/forests got screwed more than those with flatlands ie India. That was "unbalanced", and if I was making the map without any imput I probably would have made the starts identical, but is it in any way wrong that the starts were unbalanced in this matter? I want to claim no, but I think waiting to see the game unfold will prove that claim.

[Olodune]

I'm ok with the balance so far -- Sullla/Speaker and LiPing moved to better spots, but took a risk in doing so. I may have been happier if LiPing's gold was a few tiles further north, but we'll see. I agree with the idea that having a food rich map allows for more options.

Contacts should start happening over the next few turns, allowing the teams to test their diplomatic mettle. Without knowing what the early relations will look like it is very hard to handicap the game (which is a good thing )

Edit: Crosspost with Krill. Korea's second wheat was probably the biggest unbalanced feature so far -- I'm very surprised with the decision to settle in place!

[Olodune]

I'm a little surprised that the plains-furs tiles aren't more popular. If the tile is forested, trading 1 food for 2 hammers and 4 commerce is clearly better than a plains gold mine! (2 food for 3h/7c). Being Financial makes the tile even better. Food resources are even more important but both moving players happily moved away from their fur tile.

Edit: Sullla/Speaker in particular will have a slower tech rate for the first ~40 turns (but they picked up a good production boost). Their fur tile is is unforested, however.

[Cyneheard]

Contact next turn!

I've just discovered the first traces of my neighbor. Let’s think, what civ this lovely purple color belongs to?

Let the warmongers have their little peaceful discussion...and then destroy all who oppose them! *popcorn*

[Shpoko]

Contact next turn!

And if Broker and Plako move their warrior to that hill they're talking about, they'll also see LiPing...

[Cyneheard]

I really wish I could see the look on Broker and Plako's faces when they realize how close LiPing is. I doubt it will be .

[Jabah]

Contact next turn!



Let the warmongers have their little peaceful discussion...and then destroy all who oppose them! *popcorn*

I am not sure that it is in the Zulu interst to establish contact that far away with Rome that early.
They could be just as happy turning back knowing where Rome is but also knowing that Rome doesn't know about it.

[shadyforce]

I'm not sure why the war-oriented civs should be wary of each other. Surely it's in both of their interests to look elsewhere for their target.

[Shoot the Moon]

Looks like Sulla was the first to figure out the map script.

I was thinking about which map script this could be, and my best guess at the moment is the Donut script. There's some very good evidence to suggest this:

- All civs always start on the coast on Donut.
- The circular curve of the coastline that we've explored thus far.
- Easy to balance map script, spacing everyone out equally around the edge.

However, there are three problems with this assumption:

- Deer resources don't spawn naturally on Donut, so the ones we've seen would have to have been edited in. Still possible, of course.
- The Donut script has no offshore islands, and it looks like there's one up to our northwest.
- The overall size of the map. By doing the reverse math from the F8 screen, we can see that our 8 tiles are 0.48% of the total land area, which gets us 1667 total land tiles. But a Standard-size Donut map has only 1500 land tiles, so there would need to have been some extra land edited into this game.

Nevertheless, points #2 and #3 above could go together and resolve the situation, if the map team decided to stick some offshore islands around the Donut and get extra land area that way. For the moment, until we get some better information, I think we should cautiously proceed with the assumption that this is a Donut map, likely with the "Standard" center (no peaks, no ocean, etc.) Assuming that's the case, the other teams will be roughly 12-15 tiles away from us around the edge of the map.