RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[scooter]

Anyone know why exactly Whosit wants to sign this NAP with HRE? Obviously this is big for HRE as this helps them against Dantski, but how does this benefit Whosit? Seems like he'd want to stay out of a western war if he's gearing up for war in the east...

[MWIN]

Basically to deter Korea from attacking. He want to go to war with Slaze first.

Anyone know why exactly Whosit wants to sign this NAP with HRE? Obviously this is big for HRE as this helps them against Dantski, but how does this benefit Whosit? Seems like he'd want to stay out of a western war if he's gearing up for war in the east...

[Sir Bruce]

Sulla's getting bashed quite a bit for diplomacy, but we have third-person omniscient perspective on the situation. Let's try and look at it from his perspective .

Not surprisingly given his background, he's approaching diplomacy the way nation's have historically approached diplomacy. Pure realpolitik. No attempt to build friendships, just use real or perceived mutual interests to achieve objectives. Timing a note is an acceptable tool. Tricky phrasing to imply one thing but mean another is an acceptable tool. Asking for much while promising little is an acceptable tool. It is the other party's job to recognize and react accordingly.

IMHO, if we read Sulla's analysis of letters received and his commentary on letters sent from that perspective, some of the criticism doesn't hold water .

Darrell

I see your point, but I'm not so sure it applies here, mostly because Sullla has clearly seen Civ diplomacy at work in the other Pitboss and PBEM games, where diplomacy tends works best by being friendly, chatty, and responsive. It's clearly his strategy to be realpolitik, it just isn't working very well, IMO.

[T-hawk]

It's clearly his strategy to be realpolitik, it just isn't working very well, IMO.

I'm not sure whether to say that his diplo isn't working because he landed under a dogpile, or is working because he talked himself out of it (Dantski's peace treaty exposing Nakor's unit stack being the turning point.) Probably some of both.

[novice]

They didn't talk their way out of the dogpile, they fought their way out of it. Speaker even said at the time of Dantski's peace proposal "Looks like our Tokugawa diplomacy paid off" (or something to that effect).

[Krill]

Yeah, getting out of the dog pile was due to the fighting; if Spullla hadn't fought their way out of it, would Dantski have still accepted the peace offer? I'd think not, which means that Sullla's diplomacy isn't the reason for escaping the dog pile.

[MWIN]

Can somebody tell sullla to stop treating other players as AI. He thinks that all other teams are playing dirty and that ther are the only noble creatures around.

I can't stand some of his comments on other players, but may be it's me.....

[dazedroyalty]

I think that this is a great example of real world diplomacy and national pride. There's always two sides to every story and in many cases they both have truth to them. But each nation will tend to see things it's own way. I learned this lesson clearly as an American growin up over seas. When I moved back to the states for university, I met a lot of people who coulnd't understand any other point of view besides "USA #1!"

I think Sullla has legitimate points, but is simply not seeing the other side of the coin well. Other teams have legitimate points too, but are also failing to see the other side for the most part.

[MWIN]

My objection is to Sullla's lack of respect for other players....

[Kristian95]

I can understand Sullla's gripe with what looks like a couple of teams not caring much about the NAPs they have signed.... in that aspect, if you sign NAPs and discard them at your leisure, that isn't all that honorable