[PB59 NO PLAYERS] - Jungle All The Way!

[Cyneheard]

So reload is required to Piccadilly’s login? And does Amicalola get informed of the issue with that offer and an opportunity (but not obligation) to offer a valid trade for Piccadilly’s maximum gpt income?

I think both of these have to happen. But only because, inside the 10t window, Piccadilly doesn't have the gold to cover.

If this was 1200gpt, I'd have let it ride - avoiding reloads is a good thing - but a new offer should be max gpt.

[Hitru]

Agreed on both points

[Cornflakes]

So when you offered the deal, his gpt was 1500, and it dropped to 850 by the time he played?

Does this info change anything in the decision? Do we let the 1500 gpt deal proceed since it was valid when offered?

[Cornflakes]

To be clear, my biggest opposition was to what so thought was the game allowing players to offer gpt deals way in excess of the current income (1500gpt vs 850 income). But if the offer was indeed made when Piccadilly had 1500 gpt income, he would have been able to accept it immediately if he had been online. At that point the fact that he later loses massive income potential through war is a separate issue from this being a valid offer.

EDIT: I jumped over to Piccadilly’s thread at civforum and his last screenshot shows an income greater than 1500 gpt.

[Krill]

Counter point: if this was a resource trade and he lost the resource the trade offer would read differently. The game is inconsistent.

[Hitru]

If we did already reload I think we keep the game going best by letting Picc to make an offer to Amica using all of his bank and current income as he sees fit and then Amica can either accept or reject that. Any other suggestions?

[Cornflakes]

I didn't realize that Amica was awaiting a further response. My leaning is to either do nothing further since it was already reloaded, or allow the original offer to go through at 1500 gpt since it was valid as made, and by the time Amica plays Piccadilly's income will likely drop (and certainly by the time Piccadilly plays again).

[Hitru]

Either is fine. I think Picc wsnted to send offer to Amica and then continue playing, that seems to be the smoothest path to continue game

[Cornflakes]

I regret being the first to speak up in the lurker thread, and thereby assuming the role of arbiter. Seeing no clear consensus, and Hitru assenting to either option, I have reversed the decision. Reasoning:

- offer as made was valid, and was not canceled by the game. My original understanding was that a request was made for nearly double Piccadilly’s income. And I did not check Piccadilly’s thread until Amicalola commented. Had I seen that from the start I would have been in favor of playing on rather than reloading.
- had Piccadilly been in game to accept, it would have gone through. And the game did not cancel the offer.
- it is not purely free money, Piccadilly is paying the price of going into strike.
- the game has strike mechanics in place to that address negative gold per turn. I have seen previous intentional uses of strike mechanic to maximize other yields for a few turns in order to take advantage. Whether this implementation should be changed I don’t know. But it is working as intended.
- the inconsistency between resource trades getting canceled with lack of access is noted, but negative gold per turn is addressed by the game via strike.
- there was no rule one way or the other, and I have not seen this before to follow a previous decision. So the best I can refer to is previous use of maximizing strike value.
- nobody else wanted to make a decision, and Hitru was OK with both options, so I made a decision based on the above.

[Hitru]

Sounds good to me. And at this point I think it is best we keep the game going smoothly and there was no bad intentions from any player.

But for future this is something that might be worth of discussion. Would it be ok for Picc to put all cities on wealth, offer huge gpt trade for peace to someone and after that put builds back to normal while fully knowing that he can't pay what he proposed? If we assume that game ends in 8 turns or close to that there won't be many units that will actually vanish due to strike, so it's definitely worth it for Picc to offer as much gold as needed to get 10 turns enforced peace.

Or say we have 2 players who do this to each other (in turns of course). It would probably be beneficial for both of them even with strike as they can build cheap units and position them outside of their culture and have them vanish during strike while getting huge amount of gold.