[SPOILERS] scooter, pindicator, and Huayna Capac try some fast Zulu cuisine

[NobleHelium]

Well there are some key points...

1) How many galleons do we have left, enough to lose say half of them? Frigates are 2x the strength of galleons.
2) How long does it take to finish the tech for each path?

[pindicator]

Just finished watching Wrath of Khan, so I am in the right mindset now

Well there are some key points...

1) How many galleons do we have left, enough to lose say half of them? Frigates are 2x the strength of galleons.

We have 21 galleons. If we skip Chemistry, my thinking is we race across the channel as fast as possible, fully loaded.



We could easily bridge the distance in the north, but the troops would then need time to make their way south. Racing across the middle of the channel seems an invitation to have our fleet sunk; I'm not in favor of it. Or if we want to think outside the box we could use our open borders with Serdoa to go into his lands, and channel through his city of Zama.



But we run the risk of Serdoa getting the wrong impression, and the channel is very narrow SW of Zama - Commodore may even have that blocked off if he has a naval advantage against Serdoa.

My favorite so far: fort the ice hills west of Arctic Circle and send the fleet to the south



Hit him right in the underbelly.

2) How long does it take to finish the tech for each path?

I touched on tech costs earlier, but here's a recap:

Theology - 805
Drama - 483
Philosophy - 1288
Nationalism - 4347
Chemistry - 5796
Gunpowder - 2000 left to go

Currently we make 760b and -295g at 100%.
At break even we are at 60%: 456b and -12g
We have 711g in the bank

But our golden age is set to end in 3 turns. After that our break even probably drops down to near 300.
If we do not use the Great Engineer for a golden age then we can squeeze out another great person from Sid's 5 turns after the current Golden Age ends.

[NobleHelium]

Well. If we go with #1 then we should modify it by doing:

1) Tech Drama, build theatres
2) Rush Globe asap, so that we can use it for whipping before we can draft
3) Tech Theology after Drama before GA ends, swap to Theocracy (we run 100% both turns and get Theology next turn)
4) Tech Gunpowder, then Nationalism

I assume we can finish Philosophy 1t after Theocracy. So that takes 3t, then 5-6t for Gunpowder...and 8t for Nationalism with GA? We still need to revolt at the end of the GA so that is a problem...let's say 18t for everything. I don't know how many units we can draft but let's say it's 5. That's 4 from non-Globe and the Globe every turn, so 4 turns to exhaust the first cycle. One more turn of movement so 5t of setup after Nationalism. 23t to attack, optimistically.

If we do straight Gunpowder we finish it in 2t and then 10t for Chemistry including a new GA...that is fucking expensive. Then minimum 2-3t to build frigates and get them in position. That's 15t to attack, I think?

How about we just...
1) Tech Drama and then Theology, swap to Theocracy
2) Build theatres and Globe
3) Stay out of GA for five turns while whipping knights and some muskets when convenient
4) Go back into GA (back to Caste, I assume that's better) with the next GP and tech to Chemistry ASAP, and attack shortly after we launch the new GA

I.e. skip Nationalism, muster as many units as possible within the Slavery out-of-GA turns, and attack (timetable of 10-12t from now) and then build frigates to defend after the attack. Drama -> Theology -> Gunpowder -> Chemistry.

Note: double check and make sure we can actually get that GP 5t after current GA ends. Does that count Caste specialists?

[NobleHelium]

Wait, that doesn't make sense to build Globe and then swap out of Slavery. I say we just tech Theo, swap, stay in Caste while using GA hammers and commerce to the max. Build units and tech to Chem. Swap back to Slavery after the GA is over and attack, build frigates to defend afterwards.

[pindicator]

Wait, that doesn't make sense to build Globe and then swap out of Slavery. I say we just tech Theo, swap, stay in Caste while using GA hammers and commerce to the max. Build units and tech to Chem. Swap back to Slavery after the GA is over and attack, build frigates to defend afterwards.

I was thinking this last night after I posted as well. Sure, drafting the hell out of a Globe city would be great, but I don't think we have the time luxury needed to get there and be as effective.

Tech path should be Theology -> Gunpowder -> Chemistry, but don't expect to get Chem anytime soon.

I suggest we start paving over cottages. We're going to want every hammer for building knights.

[novice]

Do forts in neutral lands act as canals?

[Krill]

No.

[pindicator]

That sucks. I guess we could still sneak around the island there. I'd rather not plant a city because that would be really obvious

[scooter]

You can't build forts in neutral territory anyway.

[pindicator]

Scooter, i was about to try to talk us out of this, but once again I thought "What are our alternatives?"  And I can't see any that are more favorable.  We are playing this game at the amusement of Commodore, and to a lesser extent Serdoa and Slowcheetah.  Any of those three could take us out if they really put the effort into it.  So we can play in our sandbox with the only hope of winning the game being if the whole world goes crazy and destroys themselves.  Or if we considered lasting until when the game gets called a moral victory, we could try for that -- but neither scooter or I really think that is a fun option.

A fun option could be taking the near island from Slowcheetah.  But I think that would end up hollow; slowcheetah has fallen from top tier, especially after his failed assault on us.  I'd rather let slowcheetah recover from his wounds.  So rather than wait for the inevitability of time to fall over us, it seems better to go out on our terms.

Scooter is probably more motivated by revenge than I am.  I don't hold any grudge against Commodore for the beginning of the game.  (Frankly, I think we got what we deserved.)  But we've won wars against progressively stronger neighbors since exile; what better way to test our mettle than against the strongest?  Now that is an end I could strive for. And the longer we delay the more difficult that task will prove.

Things we need to do this turn:
Tech Theology. Next turn we'll revolt to Feudalism & Theocracy
Swap everything to knight production. If it isn't building a Knight there needs to be a really good reason. Sunk costs be damned.
Start paving over cottages with workshops - cancel all other worker actions. We need production above all else now.

I'll try to do a detailed plan this weekend and see how big a force we can create. What's a good timeline, scooter? 20 turns?