[SPOILERS PB71]Krill: By the numbers, when the walls fell (on everyone else)

[Krill]

Can a lurker go and tell Bing I am so sorry for what just happened, but that wasn't luck, that was planned.

[Krill]

Battle of Olive, PB71, T102




On T101 I removed the two C2 HA from Olive, hoping to bait an attack. It worked, and the results speak for themselves.

Bonus points to the extra GG units from the Great Wall. I'm not sure if or how this could be better for me.

[greenline]

What was the number of units on each side before bing attacked? Seems odd that he pushed in without ever getting better than 36% odds, if I am reading that right

[Krill]

He had 13 units, I left nine in the city including a medic warrior. He might have thought he had a chance because there were no walls.

The city should not have fallen but I could have lost units. It was a risk I needed to take. I think he used stack attack which would explain the order of battle.

If I was forced to attack in his position I would have thrown the bowmen at the HA, then relied on the axes to clear a hole for the spears to clean up. I do not think it would work unless you got very lucky in the bowmen v HA battles.

[Magic Science]

I'd play another random map, but if players are of the calibre of SD I think we need a slightly kinder map.

I am glad that you would play another random map.

I understand how crazy bad players can unbalance a game, but how does a random bad map make that issue worse? I don't see the connection that you see.

EDIT: about the Bing war.

[Krill]

Simply put, I believe lower yield maps highlight player weaknesses in decision making and frankly lead to those players throwing their games which affects everyone else. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "Random bad map though", so would you be able to be a bit more concise in that?

[Krill]

SD has decided that Thoth deserves a reprisal for trading copper to Yuri. I have vision over all approaches, this isn't cover for Sd attempting to attack me.




Sorry Bing. I offered straight peace last turn and Bing accepted. This doesn't mean I don't turn up on his borders in 10 turns, but it does indicate to Pindicator that I am ready for him. Tempted to wait a turn or two and suggest he attacks Thoth and see what he does. He needs some sort of agreement from me because at teh rate things are going, Pin will not be able to surpass me in power and any attack on Thoth would be off the table (unless Pin is reckless, anyway).

[Magic Science]

Simply put, I believe lower yield maps highlight player weaknesses in decision making and frankly lead to those players throwing their games which affects everyone else. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "Random bad map though", so would you be able to be a bit more concise in that?

"Random bad map" just meant a randomly generated map, like in 64, 66, and now this game, which is left unbalanced and has generally poor-yield land. I think you understood what I meant well enough to answer my question.

[Krill]

Simply put, I believe lower yield maps highlight player weaknesses in decision making and frankly lead to those players throwing their games which affects everyone else. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "Random bad map though", so would you be able to be a bit more concise in that?

"Random bad map" just meant a randomly generated map, like in 64, 66, and now this game, which is left unbalanced and has generally poor-yield land. I think you understood what I meant well enough to answer my question.

Thanks Magic Science. There is a difference between "random bad map" and a "bad random map". I believe that "random bad map" would include maps that were not randomly generated, as it just means a random map out of a set of maps that we consider bad. That would include maps that have been hand built hence I wanted to clarify.

Did you ever read about the Apolyton demogame? There was a really important lesson in there from T-Hawk, following the Spanish team closing borders and declaring war on RB. The lesson is really simple. It is theatcosts are constant. The point in that game was that the trade routes lost by RB disproportionately impacted tech rate before the war declaration. Everyone thought things would be fine and then when it happened, oh my God, things went to shit.

This might sound weird, but in a game with a low yield map. there are costs other than city maintenance and civic costs, which have to be paid. There's the need for a century net. there's the need to adequately respond. to your opponent's tech choices and the threats they present in the specifically in the need to actually defend multiple cities. These costs are disproportionately harder to carry on low yield maps. It stresses players ability to accurately judge what is needed.

Look at what Bing has done in this game. He had Vicki off Babylon. He had a corner start and. a safe backline. He needed to expand forward He needed Sentrynet to make sure his cities were safe so he could react well enough. And he wanted to make his opponents play his game to deal with the fact that he could build a. tacking economy that no one else could match because he had Vicki of Babylon that should have been the fastest starting leader combination that went. I look at his capital and I don't see all of it. He should have done better than he did. All I had to do was to turn up with three horse arches and a chariot and I have put him on tilt.

Look at how he has fallen since then. His tech is gone. He is reacting to me playing Shaka when he should be playing Vicki and making me react to him. He doesn't realise that yes he lost the city. Yes he can hold a grudge against me but he shouldn't whip out a bunch of ancient era junk and try and hit me with it. There are better things to do to harm me. I should be in a very rough position right now stuck between. Bing pushing. me and pinned Kate to potentially rushing me with samurai. instead because Bing was easily manipulated. and Super death was. redirected. using just the power graph and some whips. I'm in a pretty sound position when I shouldn't be. player in the middle should be the first one dead really.

All this is exacerbated by the challenging map because Bing can't recover. He does not have the ability to do so because his land does not allow it. If the land was a little bit kinder for example, if he actually had a food resource in Sippar etc Then he might be able to present as a threat in the future. The reality is that Bing will only present a threat to me if I allow him to recover.

One question I will have for Bing, which I suppose will make this more obvious is to ask him. which map was poorer in quality was harder to play the PB69 map or this one.

[Krill]

*scratches head*

So this happened:




I sent the request for Pindicator to declare on Thoth on T104, I think. Before a lurker asks why, keep in mind this is what I have to communicate with Pin:




For posterity: I just want Pin to not bother attacking me because at this point I'm pretty sure I win the fight the turn he invades, and then the game gets far more boring ie I have to be dogpiled. I don't want a boring game. I don't actually care if he does attack Thoth or not, I was just opening a diaglogue of sorts.

Note: The sheep and horse to the west of the diplo interface are improved, and this is where I think Pindicators sixth city is. This would give him the approach to the sugar valley and then it is just one further city to cut Thoth off from Commodore...and bankrupt Pin in terms of city maintenance. After turn rolled I got reserch vision on Pin and he is on Currency saving gold, so I am probably ahead of him in beaker terms just from Currency and Construction, I don't even know if he has HBR.

I hope the lurkers are entertained by this. I'm going to get out cities 8 and 9 before HG and finish IW whilst waiting to see if this is misdirection (I kinda doubt it is real, not going to believe anything until I see power graph changes).

BTW:




Pin popped fourth ring borders as expected. I believe Rhubarb is safe from losing the first ring, third ring borders pop there in about 10 turns. I want to save further forests there so going to prepare for a slightly different whip pattern to manage the health and happy better for the long term, but the prechops are ready if needed.

I think Pin is now has an 8 unit samurai/treb stack plus older junk). I should presume he has 25% more units to be on the safe side.