Gavagai climbs the chaos ladder

[xist10]

Different forums, different metas.
We say more or less, it is the duty of the defender to whip your cities down. - And if you can spare the workforce/units, destroy your cottages (and farms after that).

[Zed-F]

Seems like it would be a more natural and productive way to go if your forum's meta was to fight as hard as possible, for instance by paying attention to the game's geopolitics so you have time to whip your cities productively and efficiently to make units to defend yourself, and buy time for diplomacy to convince others to help you against a strong rival. Tying your units down sabotaging your own civ both weakens your chances and decreases any motivation for others to try to pile onto an attacker, making it more likely the attacker can just bully every weaker party into self-destruction.

[scooter]

Different forums, different metas.
We say more or less, it is the duty of the defender to whip your cities down. - And if you can spare the workforce/units, destroy your cottages (and farms after that).

I think this is a good argument in favor of formalizing some of these things into written-down and broadly accepted rules. I can definitely see how that meta would evolve on a different forum, especially because there are a couple people here who would agree with this sentiment and do this occasionally. In the past our "rules" here were mostly informal, and that worked out OK when it was a pretty insular community, but because the broader Civ4 community has shrunk, we've had more intermingling with your forum - which I think has been great. But it makes it helpful to write down rules rather than just sort of trust everyone has the same assumptions in their heads.

[Qgqqqqq]

I hate spitewhipping and other self sabotage. Though I seem to recall a discussion on it as a rule perhaps a year ago where the outcome was not to formalize it because of differing views.

[Gavagai]

Different forums, different metas.
We say more or less, it is the duty of the defender to whip your cities down. - And if you can spare the workforce/units, destroy your cottages (and farms after that).

If you think its normal, I imagine you would absolutely love to play in single player against AI who behaves like that. People who make AI-mods have put an enormous effort into making AI tougher, I wonder how they missed an opportunity to implement spite-whipping. An oversight indeed, I imagine it is not difficult to code.

[Gavagai]

Also, I invaded GT earlier and he did nothing like that, so I doubt it is about forum meta.

[Krill]

It'd be easier if the interface limited whipping to once per city per turn just like drafting.

[xist10]

Seems like it would be a more natural and productive way to go if your forum's meta was to fight as hard as possible, for instance by paying attention to the game's geopolitics so you have time to whip your cities productively and efficiently to make units to defend yourself, and buy time for diplomacy to convince others to help you against a strong rival. Tying your units down sabotaging your own civ both weakens your chances and decreases any motivation for others to try to pile onto an attacker, making it more likely the attacker can just bully every weaker party into self-destruction.

Why We whip the cities to size 1/2 when we expect the enemy to capture the city right now. Before that, you should still squeeze as many units from the city as possible.
Take a look at my PB72. Nost cities remain at size (where only whipped moderatly) till Greenline (Aetryn) where able to capture them.
They got the city maybe a bit faster online, but the city was slower to become productive.

And to destroy your cottages only when you have the ability without compromising your defense - so old city guards ?
I know I still have warriors and archers in the CF PB93 - we are 1 tech before infs.

And I still think an interventation is independed of the state of your empire - and we have a less developt non diplo culture - and the missing option for "War with ..." makes such diplo more difficult too.

I hate spitewhipping and other self sabotage. Though I seem to recall a discussion on it as a rule perhaps a year ago where the outcome was not to formalize it because of differing views.

Okay, than it's a good point that this is more a form of sabotage of the enemy ?
Scorched earth is a old strategy - for attacker and defender.

Also, I invaded GT earlier and he did nothing like that, so I doubt it is about forum meta.

Okay.
I know that GT does it too. - PB89 for example. In the wars I ca follow, this happens in most cases.

[Zed-F]

Why whip the cities to size 1/2 when we expect the enemy to capture the city right now. Before that, you should still squueze as many units from the city as possible.

If you are paying attention you should know when it’s time to switch from ‘whip once per 10 turns to avoid piling up anger’ to ‘I need to defend my front now and this city will be under threat soon.’ Use this time to whip units out more quickly at the cost of stacking anger. Whipping a unit out every other turn is much better for defense and considered more reasonable than spite whipping.

The same goes for improvements. Don’t underestimate the ability of old units to contribute to stack defense by absorbing collateral. Keeping your cottages will give you some cash to negotiate with when bribing someone else to help you defend against a rival.

[Qgqqqqq]

I hate spitewhipping and other self sabotage. Though I seem to recall a discussion on it as a rule perhaps a year ago where the outcome was not to formalize it because of differing views.

Okay, than it's a good point that this is more a form of sabotage of the enemy ?
Scorched earth is a old strategy - for attacker and defender.

The point is that it's not benefiting you, it's hurting them. Realistically, a cottage you burn down is not going to swing the tide of war towards you - you're most likely to die before its effects are felt. The real effect is to hurt the person who conquered you after you're gone. I have no problem with drywhipping if you do it to actually produce a unit, but whipping just to remove population honestly ought to be removed from the game as Krill says - it's an exploit.