EitB 0009 Wishlist

[Katron]

Probably because ubiquitous collateral is the stuff that wins wars.

Exactly. Everybody wants the option of dipping into AV for Ring of Fire. You can make Order attractive all you want, as long as people think Order = no Ring of Fire, it will always be a niche option. Either give them an AoE at Priest level as Ilios suggested or perhaps make it possible to have both Order and AV without penalties in the same Civ?

[NobleHelium]

You can have both Order and AV without penalties in the same civ...

[HidingKneel]

I don't think you should give Order an AoE spell. FFH does a great job of making all the religious goodies feel unique. It sounds like if anything AV needs a nerf, rather than Order needing a boost. If you're worried that ritualists are too appealing, maybe Veil needs a drawback or two? For example, Veil temples could add an unhappy face: I know I wouldn't be happy if one of them opened up in my backyard. (Maybe the Sheaim could be exempt from this, if that's not too difficult to code.)

Another idea: I notice that the events that give free golden ages if you're in the right religion have been nerfed. I understand the reasoning for this, but the new bonus (happy for 20 turns) is kind of lame. How about having it give a golden age which lasts one turn? This is a nice boost but not a game-changing one. It would give an opportunity for a cost-free civic swap which feels very flavorful ("The alignment of the stars heralds a new way forward for our people").

[DaveV]

Here's a cute idea for nerfing AV: make Ring of Flames do fairly extensive damage to the caster. One of the big advantages of Ritualists is that they can march along with your stack and cast RoF every single turn. This way, they'd risk killing themselves if they cast it too often without healing in between.

It would even be reasonably in keeping with the lore, IMO.

[NobleHelium]

Another idea: I notice that the events that give free golden ages if you're in the right religion have been nerfed. I understand the reasoning for this, but the new bonus (happy for 20 turns) is kind of lame. How about having it give a golden age which lasts one turn? This is a nice boost but not a game-changing one. It would give an opportunity for a cost-free civic swap which feels very flavorful ("The alignment of the stars heralds a new way forward for our people").

I like this a lot.

[uberfish]

Anyone can just temporarily run AV to get a few ritualists, especially Spi civs. Ironically this might be a good option for players who intend to go Order.

I would leave order as it is for now. I feel it is a playable sleeper option, making a civ-wide switch to it is fast and easy and you get a bunch of free units.

[Bobchillingworth]

Very minor request:


Can the water resource mouse-over text be adjusted for civs with Seafaring to reflect that nets add +1 commerce in addition to their regular effect?

[Commodore]

Whew, this is about the older Perp game, I was about to whine about spoilers.

[Sareln]

I don't think you should give Order an AoE spell. FFH does a great job of making all the religious goodies feel unique. It sounds like if anything AV needs a nerf, rather than Order needing a boost. If you're worried that ritualists are too appealing, maybe Veil needs a drawback or two? For example, Veil temples could add an unhappy face: I know I wouldn't be happy if one of them opened up in my backyard. (Maybe the Sheaim could be exempt from this, if that's not too difficult to code.)

Another idea: I notice that the events that give free golden ages if you're in the right religion have been nerfed. I understand the reasoning for this, but the new bonus (happy for 20 turns) is kind of lame. How about having it give a golden age which lasts one turn? This is a nice boost but not a game-changing one. It would give an opportunity for a cost-free civic swap which feels very flavorful ("The alignment of the stars heralds a new way forward for our people").

Wouldn't it be great if those events had specific choices aligned with each religion? It would take a lot of work to make them flavorful and fun choices but let's table that thought for now. In the meantime, I like the 1-turn golden age too and will slot that in instead of the happy faces.

Veil has "drawbacks" that are easy to work around.

A RoF that hurts the caster might be interesting though setting good thresholds might be difficult. That and it might be handing the AI an idiotball with which to bludgeon itself. My first instinct would be to make it 2 for 1. A RoF cast does ~20 damage to targets and ~40 to the ritualist.

Another way to set it up though, would be to have RoF damage the caster's square as well (then you'd reverse the equation: ~20 damage to surrounding tiles, ~10 damage to the center tile).

[Bobchillingworth]

Aw no, please don't nerf the RoF again! Note that none of the EitB games which have concluded so far have seen the winning player run the Veil. If people use it a lot in SP, it's because getting the next-earliest form of "damage everything" collateral is Maelstrom, which while awesome involves a lot more investment, which can become a chore for SP games when you want to just jump into the fun "killing everything" phase quickly. Making EitB have no reliable collateral outside of catapults is just going to make the mod less fun to play, not more.