Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)

[Nicolae Carpathia]

It's not a bad perspective from someone who started off white and moved overseas for work.

But as a first generation non-white immigrant from a working class background, who's gone into a STEM field, I don't have very much sympathy for this current strain of right wing populism. We are on average pretty fucking successful compared to the general population (due to the very selection process of economic migration), but it can be rocky. Considering the typical refrain for those that don't succeed is "maybe you should work harder and take some personal responsibility", the sheer fucking irony on display boggles my god damn mind.

[Bacchus]

It's not so much about having sympathy for right wing populism, as having a little self-awareness.

The letter really is excellent, I shared the link on my Russian facebook, I think it catches the atmosphere reigning in the thoughtful Remain camp perfectly. I was quite glad to be on a nice holiday in the course of this all, otherwise I feel like I would also have been completely submerged in the topic (both on terms of time and emotion).

[Gazglum]

Thanks very much guys! It's great having spaces like this to talk about these things without people getting too upset.

HumanHydra, I know what you mean. Events like this throw up a lot of questions about our identities. And how I think of my own identity shifts on the context, as I want it to. I've always noted in myself that when I talk about the Moon Landing I say "we went to the moon", as in 'we, humanity', but if I talk about something like Vietnam I say 'America invaded Vietnam', even though Australian went there too.

I think that Canada and Australia have a lot in common, we're so conscious of how recently Europeans conquered those territories, that we can't pretend not to be countries of immigration. I think it is harder for European countries, which have that racial/national identity that seems to stretch back into the distant past. Even if Celts, Saxons, Picts, Normans, etc. would have all seen each other as very different groups, in historic memory they all become 'British'.

On the optimistic side, modern Australia has a tradition of absorbing cultures and accepting them in the next generation. So Italians and Greeks arrived in the mid 20th century and were seen as outsiders, then by the time I was born they were part of the in-group. Vietnamese immigrants in the 70s were treated pretty badly at first, but by now they are mainstream Australian. Now we are afraid of Africans and Muslims, but I hope in another 20 years they will come to have seen totally part of the Australian fabric as well. And I hope the same thing will happen in Britain.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

on the other hand, aboriginals are still treated like total shit in australia

[Gazglum]

on the other hand, aboriginals are still treated like total shit in australia

They totally are, and refugees are locked up in island concentration camps. Maybe all countries are like this, but I feel Australians are particularly schizophrenic in its thinking about Us and Them. We behave appallingly towards Them, but we are also quite relaxed about Them becoming Us eventually. Except, of course, with indigenous Australians. Which is sad and genuinely a bit baffling to me, since it is one of the few areas where all sides of politics seem to share the same goal of making things better...and yet we never make anything any better.

It does make me feel bad

[TheHumanHydra]

Thanks very much guys! It's great having spaces like this to talk about these things without people getting too upset.

HumanHydra, I know what you mean. Events like this throw up a lot of questions about our identities. And how I think of my own identity shifts on the context, as I want it to. I've always noted in myself that when I talk about the Moon Landing I say "we went to the moon", as in 'we, humanity', but if I talk about something like Vietnam I say 'America invaded Vietnam', even though Australian went there too.

I think that Canada and Australia have a lot in common, we're so conscious of how recently Europeans conquered those territories, that we can't pretend not to be countries of immigration. I think it is harder for European countries, which have that racial/national identity that seems to stretch back into the distant past. Even if Celts, Saxons, Picts, Normans, etc. would have all seen each other as very different groups, in historic memory they all become 'British'.

On the optimistic side, modern Australia has a tradition of absorbing cultures and accepting them in the next generation. So Italians and Greeks arrived in the mid 20th century and were seen as outsiders, then by the time I was born they were part of the in-group. Vietnamese immigrants in the 70s were treated pretty badly at first, but by now they are mainstream Australian. Now we are afraid of Africans and Muslims, but I hope in another 20 years they will come to have seen totally part of the Australian fabric as well. And I hope the same thing will happen in Britain.

Yeah, it is the same in Canada (and, again, there is some difficulty surrounding our native groups, sadly). I'm sure it will happen in Britain, too, as it already has with some groups (at least to my eye when I visited there).

On a trivia note, your post immediately above this one is Realms Beyond's 600 000th, according to my browser.

[darrelljs]

From the outside, Brazil appears to me the best example of a successful melting pot.

Darrell

[Commodore]

From the outside, Brazil appears to me the best example of a successful melting pot.

Darrell

That's probably true. Doesn't seem to recommend melting pots much.

[T-hawk]

Everytime I hear someone say "I vote for xy to teach the gov a lesson"

Get used to it, because that's exactly what's going to put Donald Trump in charge of the USA in five months.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Fun facts:

1. I've would have been right if minorities were extremely hostile to Trump but they weren't. He somehow did better than Romney did.   

2. Clinton will win the popular vote by 1% but yet Trump got over 300 EVs. How? Well the only state with a big minority population that the GOP can win is Texas which always goes R anyway. This leads to lots of wasted votes. I won't say anymore because it would open a can of worms.