[SPOILERS] By the Rivers of Babylon, FIN has no effect (on krovice)

[novice]

The other point is that CH is EXP/IND Zulu and is somewhere on Whosits other flank. I dunno if you want to settle for horses this early when against that.

He's had AH for a long time so I think he'll have horses soon, if not already.
The ivory at Overland Park is camped now, by the way. I don't know when it happened.

[Krill]

I haven't been keeping an eye on that ivory myself.

Whosit still has 2 cities, right? So it's not like he has settled for them recent. He still has to go out, settle them, get the roads and pastures in place. Having the tech doesn't mean you immediately get the resource, unless you are really lucky. And as chariots don't help him against Impi I don't think he will be planning to settle for horses with city 3. And even if he is going to do that, How soon could he attack with 4 chariots?

Also, you aren't Whosit. Tailor the playstyle to the opponents.

[Krill]

Having said all that...I take it you have a different idea? Not just for the next 20 turns but dot map?

[novice]

Having said all that...I take it you have a different idea? Not just for the next 20 turns but dot map?

I really like the city for easy grabbing of available resources. It's just a pity we risk starting a grudge war with Whosit while dtay and plako expand on our other flanks. So I wanted to hear your thoughts. I don't have a different idea at the moment.

[Krill]

I think that Plako isn't our problem. Not yet, anyway. The only area that we contend the same land is that stone island. What do we need to claim that? 1 galley, 1 settler, a bowman. And a workboat/worker to improve it. So long as we have enough pop in that city and a hammer into a bowman, I don't really worry for that city (on which note, I am starting to appreciate Babylon more and more).

I don't think that we have much difficulty getting that stuff together TBH, and because of our city locations Plako can't settle on his southern coast anyway. Even if he is CRE. So long as we go AH>Sailing I do not think that we have any issues there.

dtay I am concerned about more, but what are we going to do against him anyway? If we try to contest anything with him we lose due to his pop numbers and beaker lead. I honestly do not want to piss him off at all, especially if we have the option of retreating the other front city again him and just using the banana, pigs and sugar. Hell, we don't even need the banana. What we need is to be able to put a stack of HA on the corn tile west of OT and not have it at risk of being hit by fast movers. We do that and post Catapults our defense is fine so long as we don't skimp on units. And so long as we get something towards dtay we are fine, even if we have to cram a city in north of the pig.

Also, if I fear a chariot attack, I fear it more from dtay. He does have the pop lead to attack us way before we could get copper, just by 1 pop whipping a chariot form every city and throwing them at us. I don't think we can realistically settle towards him without a good number of bowmen and a warrior to upgrade to a spear (ie can't settle less than 4 turns before hooking copper).

I suppose the other question is what do we think Whosit will do once he sees the third city? Personally, I don't think he will do anything other than reconsider his dot map and settling priority. But if he were to decide to try and attack us, what could we do differently?

Also, a grudge war kinda implies that we wouldn't build military anyway. Grudge wars when you hold the land at the start are...manageable IMO. In fact, there are ways to turn it to our advantage: that contentious city is the best NE city site we have. Early war for a GG means we can get the NE down and I'm even less bothered about the long term effects of the war. Maybe a dogpile would be a bitch, but if dtay goes for HBR we have to follow him and force a stand off. Hell, Whosit probably has to attack us anyway.

[novice]

Okay, you sound like you know your stuff. Let's proceed, with caution.

[Krill]

Heh, you know listening to me when playing Willem isn't usually that great? This is the third game with him and each time I've picked rather stupid fights with someone that is supposed to be stronger.

[Krill]

Also, that fifth city is like one of the best hammer cities we have? Use the rice to speed growth, but sitting at size 5 with 4 grass mines it's 14hpt, matched by the city 3. Capital hits 13hpt using mines with some food surplus and copper city hits 14 1S of copper (16hpt if 2 south with no spare food). Those front cities are the only cities that we can easily leave on hills building units. As the happy cap increases that city is also the only one that doesn't need MC to keep on improving the hammer output.

[novice]

Heh, you know listening to me when playing Willem isn't usually that great? This is the third game with him and each time I've picked rather stupid fights with someone that is supposed to be stronger.

Yeah according to Noble you're the worst dedlurker ever. Luckily for me, you'll have to play quite a few summer turns in this game, so you can't lurk your way out of any trouble this causes.

[Krill]

Is it the ded lurkers mistake if the turn player listens to them?