[SPOILERS] How do you make this thing work: Krill randomly mashes some buttons

[Krill]

OK, tech path:

Get Apprenticeship to 1 turn from completion, should change tech on T94. With building walls in MS and Corinth, I can delay placing the IZ for a few turns and not fuck up the cost, but also not really delay the completion time. However, that would fuck up EF, which has no chops remaining, and needs to start work on the IZ ASAP. None of this really matters that much, just grab Apprenticeship, using the builder from CS to place the third mine on T96, so finish Apprenticeship T96 to not waste beakers. T97 harvest the cow into EF and place the IZ.

So, options beyond that. Due to the massive amount of chopping (5 in the NW minimum) and the ability to get all the Districts down before a tech spree, I want to get all the techs I identify that I will need over the next 30 turns researched to close to completion, then chop the walls and imediately place the remaining 2 IZ, then finish the next 4-5 techs before doing the rest of the chops.

What do I need? Gunpowder? So research Mil Eng? I want Harbours, so Celestial Navigation? I need 2 Harbours to Boost Cartography, which I need to boost Exploration which I need to get Merchant Republic. Harbours go in EF and Corinth.

That requires Astrology (25 science), Celestial Navigation (60 science), Ship Building (100 science), Cartography (270 science with 2 Harbours built), Stirrups (65 science remaining), Machinery (about 20 science max left), Military Engineering (195 science with Aqueduct somewhere, EF), Apprenticeship (Less than 100 science remaining as of eot90) and Gunpowder (270 science with Armory, VV). Total science needed: 1100 science.

With no population loss, that's only 320 science more than I'd generate naturally over the next 30 turns anyway, which would just be Gunpowder missing and the erst made up from pop growth and a campus.

[Krill]

First update in 14 turns so it's a bit hard to see how you got here from Turn 76....a couple of questions:

- why do you want the IZ's, in particular, three of them?  Commercial hubs for trade routes might be a better option.  Internal trade routes would be able to provide some additional to places like Scombridae.

IZ are for Corinth, MS and EF. This post has screenshots with dotmap for districts, although some of my thoughts have changed. Also, Production lets me build the Harbours and Commercial Districts and later, you know, units I might need. Those three IZ are all 4 (MS and Corith, 5 yield with 2/1 extra districts respectively) or 5 yield (EF).

- It might be worth putting the Colosseum down somewhere it can reach at least your four main cities.  That'd generate 2 and 3 amenities per city within 6 tiles.  The jungle hex 36 of Musa Sapientum would cover all of your cities plus a coastal backfill west of Musa.  The Entertainment District would then go on the spot 3 of Musa.

The desert tile 331 of MS (and 779 of CS) also works the same. I was planning on putting the Entertainment District on that tile, but I could put the ED 77 of CS and then place the Colosseum on the desert hill that reaches all the cities? Can the Colosseum go on a Hill? No other city has the production to compete with China for that wonder.

- What city-states has your civ met besides Lisbon?

Valetta, to the west, and Carthage, to the NE. Hattusa has been taken by Jester, and Kandy is now Scombridae. I have no further access to city states because on what is a ring map, I can't get past Alhambram or Pindicator. Galleys are heading in both directions already. Also, another reason I'm a bit bummed about city states is that they've turned into food and they aren't going to last long term IMO.

- Would it be possible for a builder to harvest the stone to complete the walls at Scombridae with Limes slotted?  With reasonable micro it might be possible to put the overflow into a Campus in order to get some more science.

That's my current thinking but...there are no good places to put a campus. Unless I put the Campus 4 of the stone, and then somehow grab a Harbour between the HS, Campus and City Center? I could also buy the second stone to help with that plan. Even with that plan, the Campus only makes 1SPT until the Harbour completes. Better to build the Harbour first and use a trader for some more production IMO.

- Are there any cities without monuments?

VV, EF, CS and Corinth lack Monuments. Corinth has 4 production invested into a monument.

Oral Tradition is generating 6CPT right now.

[Krill]

OK, Civics.

I want more slots. What's the next Government to be?

Civil Service, I'm not getting the inspiration for that, nor for Divine Right, and frankly I don't want that many red card slots from Monarchy, and the only card that I care about is Retainers. So ignore all of them. I want Merchant Republic. Mercenaries, Mil Training and Feud are all boosted, and Feud and MT are almost completed. I need 2 caravels for Exploration to be boosted, so I need to upgrade two galleys. Professional Armies and the two galleys I have do that...but they are exploring. So I need to build 2 more galleys and upgrade them. Not a problem with my gold generation and an IZ in EF. Just can't get 4 trade routes for MF. Unless I got a further two CD or CD and Colossus? Potentially I could get a CD in MS (That's the aim, plus that Harbour in Scombridae?)

Could I get the inspiration? Limes and a stone harvest should give me close to 200 production which gives the Harbour. Second stone harvest would give most of the Campus, probably worth it to make Scombridae of some value. I need a harbour in Corinth, but I think I'm more likely to just get the CD in MS, between MS and the IZ.

The only other cards I want are on Guilds, but by that point? I should have CS inspired and maybe even Guilds itself inspired with markets in CS (which has the production to build it without an IZ) and MS (which should have an IZ and a bunch of mines to work).

So, I have Feud eot92, MT eot96, the dump culture into MF. MF is half completed by eot99, but with fiddling stop it after eot98 then I need to complete Mercenaries, which is finished eot104, so I should try and get all the trade routes in place by T105. OK, that ain't happening. I can barely get the Harbour in Scombridae done by that point, never mind the traders. But if I can get the traders in place by T112 then it's still worth swapping. I think I can do that, as CS and EF could build a trader apiece quickly, and I could chop one forest for IZ in MS through Limes to get the IZ (or rather about 120 production of it), then the second forest chop is worth about 80 due to tech inflation. Would have to go straight IZ>CD, but if it saves me 190 culture then I'll take the hammer loss.

That means Corinth could chop out a settler. 3 forest chops would more than get it (plus a chunk of overflow into either an Acopolis or a Harbour). Hmm, more to think about here. CS might have a congested build queue.

[Bacchus]

Colosseum has to be placed on flatland.

[Krill]

Well fuck that then, there are no locations I can build it.

[Krill]

Yeah, just build the ED, get the extra envoy in Lisbon for the free silver, it should also give me furs once it pops borders from that envoy so that's 2 further amenities. Whales and Wines give me a further 2. Then I'm capped out except through trade.

Also, worth considering just holding onto the natural envoy, envoy from Acropolis and MT, theoretically I could dump 4 envoys into a newly met City State to take Suzerainty away from either Pin or Alhambram.

[Krill]

I fucking hate city states.

Cornflakes, I just know you didn't mean for any of this to happen, but the city states are fucking impossible to deal with.




So I can't actually meet any city states, because choke points are held by other players. I can't get around the choke points without declaring war and losing envoys, and I can't get get around until Cartography. And then Alhambram has a galley to block progress anyway. And on the other way around, I met a barb quadreme. Far enough, that shit happens.

FFS, why does this shit happen to me. Might just retreat both galleys and use them to upgrade to caravels.

Also, on trade routes:




Sent the route to Sun Zhou. 6 gold and 1 hammer. I don't really value the food due to the amenity cap, so...Gold is useful, given I'm about to blow over 400 on buying a few tiles. Might have enough left to buy a granary in CS.

[Krill]

Also, worth considering saving gold to buy two traders to unblock MF ASAP.

[Krill]

Vent over.

Options. Suzerain Carthage. Wait 15 turns for the GP quest envoy, or dump the MT, Acropolis and natural envoy in 5 turns? Just wait 5 turns and see. Worst case, retreat, wait 20 turns, upgrade to caravels and go over the ocean. Fuck it, retreat and upgrade, gives me certainty with the play for Merc Rep. Use diplomatic league for an envoy each into Valetta and Carthage, gives me 4 envoys and a later option for suzerainty in either.

Just need to see gold costs for next turn and plan around buying two traders. Buying desert hill, whale at a minimum but might buy up to 4 tiles at Scombridae, MS and Corinth.

[Krill]

Well, I'll hopefully be able to do a fuller update tonight, but Land Surveyors saved me over 100 gold as I ended up buying 5 tiles, three of them third ring tiles (second stone at Scombridae, whales at EF, ED tile at CS) plus two second ring tiles at Corinth (now renamed Scylla Serrata due to crabs). I did this because turns out that finishing Feudalism knocked out Iikum, so I didn't get teh extra production into the builder at MS, therefore I had to redo all the micro. The only way to get the builder this turn at MS was to buy the tiles and work them for extra production. Otherwise, I'd either have to push that builder down the build queue, costing about 30 production due to Limes and delaying the CD and therefore Medieval Faires, or delay all other builders, thus amenity hook ups and extra tile yields. So I sucked it up, bought the tiles and will be using the forests to speed up everything else at MS and SS.

Out of interest, has anyone else used Land Surveyors to blow a shitload of gold in the past? I just spent almost 500 gold on tiles, that seems insane. I'm not even sure if it makes any sense in hindsight. What is the current thinking regarding buying tiles?