RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Twinkletoes89]

I just feel like people are becoming too blinkered on the 'fame' of Spulla, they are strong right now but they do not have a combat UU which could be decisive when it comes to a war.

I would rather work with them right now than Jowy, who seems very unpredictable in his diplo and play. I am 98% certain that because of this, Spulla knows what is coming and are keeping it very quiet. When the war comes, I think some people could be surprised on who falls on which side.

And noone seems to be suspecting the Incas, despite the fact they are the only civ to have destroyed another, with lots of 'unclaimed' land to grow into as Whosit is preoccupied with Korea.

Also, if Spulla are destroyed I think that the 'conspirators' will very quickly fall into mistrust and war over the 'spoils' - leaving those who are uninvolved (which I believe includes the Inca) in very strong positions.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, I don't think that Jowy and Dantski have as much MP XP as Speaker does. I'm not particularly confident of Jowy and I don't think Dantski is ready for a war that he'll have to get into in about 15 turns. He's already demonstrated some questionable decision making skills with guarding his cities and his Copper city is kinda in the middle of nowhere.

The staggered war declarations should allow Spullla some breathing room is Jowy goes through with it.

[Krill]

I just feel like people are becoming too blinkered on the 'fame' of Spulla, they are strong right now but they do not have a combat UU which could be decisive when it comes to a war.

I would rather work with them right now than Jowy, who seems very unpredictable in his diplo and play. I am 98% certain that because of this, Spulla knows what is coming and are keeping it very quiet. When the war comes, I think some people could be surprised on who falls on which side.

And noone seems to be suspecting the Incas, despite the fact they are the only civ to have destroyed another, with lots of 'unclaimed' land to grow into as Whosit is preoccupied with Korea.

Also, if Spulla are destroyed I think that the 'conspirators' will very quickly fall into mistrust and war over the 'spoils' - leaving those who are uninvolved (which I believe includes the Inca) in very strong positions.

The problem that most experienced players have, is that if they are allowed to get up to speed they aren't going to get stopped by any one enemy. In games with tech trading, they can be slowed by a counter alliance trading together and embargoing the leader; in this game that isn't possible.

Spullla and their neighbours are going to be involved in a war at some point in this game, that is indisputable, because Spullla will start it once they have the upper hand to gain more lebensraum. So the neighbours starting a war when it is in their best interests (ie on a rough technoological parity), and possibly even getting other players to contribute troops, is the correct metagame play to deal with Spullla. It may not be the correct play to get the highest place finish however, which is what you allude to in your post.

Now, the problem with working with Spullla is that it leads to some rather interesting metagaming, and an even more important question: Why are you playing this game? Are you playing the game to get the highest possible finish, or are you playing the game to play some good civ, making good decisions along the way? This is an issue that rarely gets brought up in these games, but it's one that ultimately controls the way the game gets played. My personal opinion, not that it really matters here, is that playing for ranking is a waste of time because you always get some **** who will play solely to beat up the best player, which makes the entire unbalanced. Also taking into account unbalanced maps and I think it's best just to try and play a good game, make some interesting decisions and improvise. Publically visible games such as this I think should be made as entertaining and as educational as possible.

[Twinkletoes89]

Now, the problem with working with Spullla is that it leads to some rather interesting metagaming, and an even more important question: Why are you playing this game? Are you playing the game to get the highest possible finish, or are you playing the game to play some good civ, making good decisions along the way? This is an issue that rarely gets brought up in these games, but it's one that ultimately controls the way the game gets played. My personal opinion, not that it really matters here, is that playing for ranking is a waste of time because you always get some **** who will play solely to beat up the best player, which makes the entire unbalanced. Also taking into account unbalanced maps and I think it's best just to try and play a good game, make some interesting decisions and improvise. Publically visible games such as this I think should be made as entertaining and as educational as possible.

I agree with you there, I haven't played MP yet but I look on these PitBoss games to learn some tactics and methods for playing these games. I am sure that right now, I would most likely get stomped by even relatively new players, but you've got to start somewhere!

From my perspective, I would like to see some people play 'as noble and true as possible'. I don't always like the civs who just say - I won't win but I'll stop as many others from winning until I'm gone. I think that the problem with this game is the lack of Tech-trading to build up meaningful long-term alliances. I wouldn't mind not winning the game if I played as a noble ally to the winner. Obviously that tactic isn't everyone's cup of tea! Hence why right now I would want to be behind Spulla, to see a battle of alliances rather than 'hey he's winning, lets all gang up on him' without any thought to the consequences of such an action.

[Krill]

I think by the end of next month it might be time to see if there are any new players that would like to take part in one of these games. They do seem to add quite alot to the population of the board...and the game types still need refining, as you said.

It is good to see the new members joining and taking part in the games though

[Pegasus]

I think by the end of next month it might be time to see if there are any new players that would like to take part in one of these games. They do seem to add quite alot to the population of the board...and the game types still need refining, as you said.

It is good to see the new members joining and taking part in the games though

Can I suggest a Master / Padiwan team formation? One experienced RB player and a Newbie on each team? I am learning so much on these threads regarding even the basic things, but I do wonder to myself there is probably so much more that goes through the experienced players thoughts than is written. Not sure how you would get around the fact that the Master would dominate the decision making though.

[Twinkletoes89]

Can I suggest a Master / Padawan team formation? One experienced RB player and a Newbie on each team? I am learning so much on these threads regarding even the basic things, but I do wonder to myself there is probably so much more that goes through the experienced players thoughts than is written. Not sure how you would get around the fact that the Master would dominate the decision making though.

I agree with this 100% - I think this would be really helpful for both me and other new players. We might sort it with the 'Padawan' running the game and each of them having a 'Master' assigned to them to PM or lurk on their private thread to ask questions and give advice. Then the Master doesn't control gameplay but is there to help as much as possible

[Krill]

There's not a lot to be taught, that can't be learnt from reading over this game, RBPB1 and the PBEM.

PBEM: Shows the importance of growth and acting decisively. Dreylins' execution of his war was damned near perfect.

RBPB1: Shows the importance of food over military early on (Incans/Indians v Rome/Zulu/Spain), diplomacy setting up tech trades (India) and how to attack/defend (Shady in particular, but Brokers' attack on Kodii deserves honourable mention).

RBPB2: Shows how to grow and tech at the same time (Spullla), and why not to be greedy (Byz, Zulu). Sullla also illustrates how to plan ahead using excel, which much improves general gameplay.

TBH it would probably be best if in a new game the new players formed teams among themselves; look at how athlete is playing in this game, and compare it to the PBEM; there is a massive improvement in skill. Some more experienced players probably would be up for some system that entailed new and old players playing together, but for some people (and I include myself in this number) I don't think we are suitable to work as part of a pair and forcing them to play as such is a little iffy.

The best crutch that anyone can have in these games is a simulation of the map, where a woldbuildersave is created which exactly matches the starting terrain of the capital, allowing each player individually to play ahead and see what the best way to play the game is. It generaly takes a while at the start of the game to set up a plan, but once it is done it is real easy to keep on playing and alter it as needed.

Do that, and study the diplomacy of the previous games and you've basically learnt everything that has been discovered over the past 8 months on this forum.

I'll probably start up a sign up thread in the new year...

/off topic

[antisocialmunky]

That'd be nice. Would I be able to play using a Steam copy of Civ4?

[Krill]

Yeah, so long as you have 3.19 patch installed, no problem. Steam released that months ago, right?