And we got SW for free.
So we have the option of move and beeline IW. But that leaves us wide open vs War Chariots.
So we have the option of move and beeline IW. But that leaves us wide open vs War Chariots.
fnord
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[spoilers] Rusty, Creaky, and Cranky: Thoth yells at clouds
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I don't know about wide open. Looking at it more closely settling on horse for SE is really bad due to lack of food.
Tiny Monarch with wb first should land Bw eot13 and IW eot28 and Hunting 3 turns after that. That includes the loss from moving. Worker could be double whipped t21 or single whipped at size 2 t15, copper mined t20 and hooked due to river and coast. This would allow a warrior queu upgrade and further whip T21 and spear is on the copper T23. Worst case scenario for a WC rush is settling t2 and AH eot11 with bad micro and then a WC takes 30 hammers with no food so eot19 because stuck at size 1? It would reach the copper T24 with no road in place, and if a road is in place from worker first then the WC can't complete before T23 or something ridiculous. If settling off the horse it needs a pasture and road so best case scenario for Mig would be a t20+ hookup which is not a threat. The whole WC rush nonsense can be ignored IMO. The best start for settling on horse was actually SW.
Moving also improves the dot map even if we don't beeline IW.
 vs moving  Moving also delays the Fish by one turn (we loose two turns with settler move and extra WB travel but gain one back from inner ring FPH) and we would loose the +1 hammer from copper post-BW. Thoughts? I think moving is better long term but SIP gets us out the gate faster.
fnord
We need to know what Mig picks. In both cases BW and wb first is the play I would make because it's unchokeable (even by scouts)
The timings for SiP are: Growth@2 eot7, wb eot8 (2/24), T9 work oasis/banana (6/24), T10 hook fish, growth@3 eot12 (24/24) BW eot12 (overflow 7 base beakers), warrior 12/15. It doesn't make much sense to put a turn into a worker until size 3 but from here there are a bunch of options: worker for single whip, build axe to size 4 to double whip worker or set up an axe double whip (need to be very happy efficient in this game IMO). But I keep on coming to the conclusion that SiP can't rush IW because need Wheel anyway, and probably Hunting (spears might be mandatory) and Agri first. It is up minimum 15 hammers from the quicker 3H capital tile though. Moving is awkward at first compared to the above, but does have plus points: Move T0, settle T1, Growth@2 eot8, wb eot9, T10 work banana/wheat, T11 same (8/24), T12 hook fish, BW eot13. I believe that this is one of the scenarios where I would try to push out the worker ASAP, and I might even keep the scout back to camp our copper, simply because it's that awkward if someone tries to play silly buggers. In that scenario I'd consider either whip at size 3 (growth@3 eot14, revolt T15, whip T19 69/60, copper hooked T24, growth@3 T23), or balls to the wall no units whip at size 2: build wb>worker, revolt T14, whip T15 69/60, growth@2 eot19 22/22, copper hooked T20 but not worked until T24). No one starting without Mining will reach it before T19 IMO. Straight AH should land eot11 if settling in place but that means no horse. Anyone moving loses a turn but settling on the banana would allow the eot10 worker for yuris, with horse roaded and hooked T18 with no food improved but capital gold and horse, for growth@2 eot16 and a chariot eot22 (eot21 if he can find 2 hammers somewhere). This puts a chariot on the copper T25 if he roads towards us (before we play T25 so theoretically the worker is at risk). Mig can't settle for horse and rush. Com is a nonentity. Of course, if we just delay the worker and focus on getting to size 5 and working a few commerce tiles along the way we can bring forward IW to maybe T26 and then just trash any rush with a couple of double whipped preats (please note that to rush us as described the other players have to sacrifice settlers as well). There is no need to make any decisions along these lines for 10 turns. If there is concern regarding yuris going for quick chariots, then I would propose the scout heads up there first, but if we settled in place then the reply is to go BW>Hunting and prep for the spear double whip. I suppose the point I like about the iron capital is that SW has the worst cottage land options, so a Moai capital is not a stupid idea. Also the idea of using no score is really stupid, it essentially reduces this game to RPS because of the lack of information to respond.
BTW if Mig picks either Mali (Archery eot11, Skirm eot15) or Maya (Fuck Maya, BW eot12, Hunting eot16, holkan eot18 via whip) the correct reply is to forget everything else and murder him with preats after fucking with him via the scout and ignore yuris. If yuris tries a bowman rush, well, I'll laugh because the best reply to that is to just rush IW; bowmen need +200% modifiers to get odds on defence and he can't get that outside cities.
The easy answer to all these rush scenarios is that workboat and settling either metal hill makes Rome unrushable, but then if they don't rush Rome do they might get smacked by preats. It's an awkward choice to play against. Even if they tried to camp the copper they don't actually achieve anything because they can't handle 2 preats on a tile together, and the Agg preats get odds on everything up to an AGG Axe on a forest or hill. If we don't settle on the iron though, it can get a bit messy (ie axe/axe combat), and trying to defend against bowmen walking to the iron is costly.
Of course, another sneaky way to play this is to ignore the worker and just double whip a settler at size 4 with the copper capital. For context growth@3 eot12, revolt T13, growth@4 eot17, micro to finish warrior 20/15 eot17, build settler T18, whip T21. I'd want to settle 1S of the ivory with that settler, and this is really fucking dodgy against Babylon, but an alternative is to settle on the furs and try to interdict the gold tile from Mig?
Tech costs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing
Code: Technology: Base cost: Adjusted cost:(October 16th, 2022, 10:01)Krill Wrote: Of course, another sneaky way to play this is to ignore the worker and just double whip a settler at size 4 with the copper capital. For context growth@3 eot12, revolt T13, growth@4 eot17, micro to finish warrior 20/15 eot17, build settler T18, whip T21. I'd want to settle 1S of the ivory with that settler, and this is really fucking dodgy against Babylon, but an alternative is to settle on the furs and try to interdict the gold tile from Mig? If we time tech right that could be a spear double whipped into an ax t19 or 20 with the warrior for MP (or we skip the warrior and let him queue upgrade to a spear and then 2 whip the axe into the spear . That takes care of incoming chariots from Yuris but leaves us with no worker and no settler on t21 and 2 pop with a 4 turn regrow per pop to size 4. So settler started t 29, whipped 33? And still no worker...... Hmmm.......lemme go wash the paint off my hands and do some simming. Need to get my head out of painting and into Civ for a bit.
fnord
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