RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[novice]

Kindof funny that Spullla found out about the toroidal map from another team. Shows they're not omnipotent.

Btw, is this diagram correct?

I would have thought that if you follow the white arrow from Spullla you end up between IKZ and Kathlete?

[Krill]

Yeah, because of the moves made with the starting settler and that some civs are dead, the line ups don't quite match.

Spullla/Dantski are lined up against IKZ, and maybe later on Whosit
Whosit/Ploker are lined up again KA
Dakor are agaainst KA as well
Jowy is against Whosit

[zakalwe]

Probably stating the obvious here, but you're gonna be pretty screwed on this map with no allies - lots of directions to be attacked from.

[T-hawk]

Sullla is a little bit off in his analysis. The arrows are irrelevant; opposition on a torus is a flawed concept. If Sulla sailed due northwest (his white arrow), the ship would miss the donut in the northeast corner, cross over the north edge, and intersect the donut again close to Broker. (The line would be a "Great Diagonal", the analogue on a torus of a Great Circle on a sphere.) The shortest distance over water from Sullla to a neighbor is actually IKZ.

Anyway, opposition is also irrelevant because Civ 4 treats diagonal distance the same as orthogonal. If Sullla were to sail a boat due west, it would reach IKZ in the same time as a boat sailing southwest would reach Mortius's start location.

Sullla is thinking as if a civ reaches another by superimposing a circle (the area traced out by a straight-line segment as a radius) on a sphere. But the actual geometry is that of superimposing a square (since Civ units can move diagonally) on a torus.

Not that this is likely to have any practical impact, though.

[Krill]

True, if you can go in straight lines, but the islands are in the way, and funnel ships towards specific players, so while opposition is flawed term, perhaps nearest naval neighbour would be better? Not that Sullla can realise that until he scouts out the islands, of course.

[McClure]

Does anyone else have the impression that Spulla should be doing absolutely everything possible to prop up Broker/Plako to the extent that they don't accept peace with Whosit, but they don't realize it?

Peace means that Whosit can drop essentially his entire Praet army (most of whom will have three promotions) into the middle of Spulla-land, in the middle of what should already be a two-front war! The only limiting factors appear to be Galleys and Whosit not understanding he might be able to sail to Spulla from the outside of the ring.

Heh. Broker/Plako are saving themselves and inadvertently dooming Spulla.

[antisocialmunky]

What can they do? Ship their non-existant super army across the inland sea with their non-existant galley?

[Shoot the Moon]

Does anyone else have the impression that Spulla should be doing absolutely everything possible to prop up Broker/Plako to the extent that they don't accept peace with Whosit, but they don't realize it?

Peace means that Whosit can drop essentially his entire Praet army (most of whom will have three promotions) into the middle of Spulla-land, in the middle of what should already be a two-front war! The only limiting factors appear to be Galleys and Whosit not understanding he might be able to sail to Spulla from the outside of the ring.

Heh. Broker/Plako are saving themselves and inadvertently dooming Spulla.

Should they be propping up Broker/Plako? Yes. However, they can't do much: Broker and Plako already have metal, and no one has currency for gold trading.

Of course, it is completely unrealistic for Spulla to expect Whosit to invade them (I somewhat doubt he will myself. I'm not sure his economy could handle it (or that he thinks his economy can handle it)).

[haphazard1]

Should they be propping up Broker/Plako? Yes. However, they can't do much: Broker and Plako already have metal, and no one has currency for gold trading.

Of course, it is completely unrealistic for Spulla to expect Whosit to invade them (I somewhat doubt he will myself. I'm not sure his economy could handle it (or that he thinks his economy can handle it)).

What good would gold do at this point, if there was Currency available? Prop up Korea's research to Construction, maybe, but that is a longer-term thing and Sulla has indicated he expects it to be all over within 10-15 turns.

As for anticipating Whosit's praets to appear, why would Spullla think that? Whosit is quite far away, with three civs between him and India, and is currently hip-deep in a war of conquest. No reason to worry about him at all. I think this is an illusion of us lurkers reading all the CoW posts and knowing what is being planned.

Now, if and when the war with Korea ends and Whosit still has all those veteran praets around needing something to keep them busy...then Spullla may start getting suspicious.

[sunrise089]

What good would gold do at this point, if there was Currency available?

If Sullla had a single unit in Korean lands, he could pillage their copper, Korea could slave a bunch of cheap warriors, then Korea could hook up copper, and then upgrade warriors to axes using Indian gold.

Not saying that's a great plan, but as I see it that would be the potential benefit of currency.