January 26th, 2010, 13:09
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Hi,
T-hawk Wrote:Sirian once wrote in the Civ 3 rules something to the effect of "we're running a strategy game, not a memory or attention test." I wouldn't want to see a city or war lost over an easily detected oversight. Was that the same Sirian who, if I remember correctly, hotly argued against and for the Epics never allowed a bean-counter tool for Civ 3 that told you about the number of tiles under you control to see how close you were for the domination limit? 
-Kylearan
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
January 26th, 2010, 14:09
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Kylearan Wrote:Was that the same Sirian who, if I remember correctly, hotly argued against and for the Epics never allowed a bean-counter tool for Civ 3 that told you about the number of tiles under you control to see how close you were for the domination limit?
True. But I think that argument was more about establishing a precedent against outside tools and avoiding the slippery slope of allowing everything. We've always had tension between the sanctity of the game and the enjoyable community experience, and in the long run I prefer to err towards the latter.
January 26th, 2010, 14:47
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I've spent far too much time following this game as a lurker. I can only imagine what it's like for the actual players!
As fantastic as Sullla and Speaker's Civ play has been, in my opinion their metagaming and awareness has been equally as terrible. Sullla seems to assume that because their opponents are making basic game-level mistakes, they also must be completely oblivious to basic strategic thinking, human nature, and the tendency to act according to self-interest. He seems genuinely baffled by what HRE's motivation could ever be for going after their team. It doesn't take a genius to realize that in a game like this with no tech trading, when a team is that far ahead the _only_ chance _any_ other team has is to see them defeated. The basic assumption that other teams aren't stupid, and that they will act in their own best interests of winning, can lead to no other conclusion, even if other teams lack any Civ skill at all. I think Sullla will kick himself afterwards for not thinking on this basic level about the game as a whole. Seeing that they were pulling so far ahead, they should have had their main focus on being strong while appearing weak, starting at least 40 turns ago!
The unfortunate part of this for lurkers like me is that their thread (and Byzantine's before it) are just so detailed and fun to read and I have already learned so much about the game from them. After reading their thread and a few others, I've found I can now beat Monarch fairly easily, where it was an even match before. I would love to read their planning to the same level of detail during the middle and late game!
January 26th, 2010, 15:00
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WilliamLP Wrote:As fantastic as Sullla and Speaker's Civ play has been, in my opinion their metagaming and awareness has been equally as terrible. Sullla seems to assume that because their opponents are making basic game-level mistakes, they also must be completely oblivious to basic strategic thinking, human nature, and the tendency to act according to self-interest. He seems genuinely baffled by what HRE's motivation could ever be for going after their team. It doesn't take a genius to realize that in a game like this with no tech trading, when a team is that far ahead the _only_ chance _any_ other team has is to see them defeated. The basic assumption that other teams aren't stupid, and that they will act in their own best interests of winning, can lead to no other conclusion, even if other teams lack any Civ skill at all. I think Sullla will kick himself afterwards for not thinking on this basic level about the game as a whole. Seeing that they were pulling so far ahead, they should have had their main focus on being strong while appearing weak, starting at least 40 turns ago!
Definitely agree with this and paint our team (or at least myself) somewhat guilty of the same thing
January 26th, 2010, 16:12
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I noticed from Kathletes thread there's some nice expansion on the cards - settlers and cottages aplenty. 
They really have worked a marvel with the CoW, I'm impressed...
January 26th, 2010, 16:17
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I think Spulla caught some bad breaks. 40 turns ago it wasn't at all obvious that Byzantium would be eliminated and Korea subjugated leaving Rome and Kathlete with free armies.
When exactly did the CoW start to form? My take on this is that for Spulla to have had a chance at getting out of this diplomatically they would have had to contact the HRE with plans to work together against Dantski before the CoW started to form. Then the HRE probably would go along with a plan that gave them almost all of Dantski's cities.
January 26th, 2010, 16:22
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Once Paris fell, Byzantium were dead, it was just a matter of time, and Rome didn't exactly need that massive army to to do anything about Korea; there was all of that land to the north east to expand into instead. Was it a likely outcome? No, but there wasn't anything stopping it from happening...
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23
Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6: PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
January 26th, 2010, 16:50
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Quote:The unfortunate part of this for lurkers like me is that their thread (and Byzantine's before it) are just so detailed and fun to read and I have already learned so much about the game from them. After reading their thread and a few others, I've found I can now beat Monarch fairly easily, where it was an even match before. I would love to read their planning to the same level of detail during the middle and late game!
Yeah, once team spullla is eliminated there won't be much point in following this game anymore. The CoW members are all scrubs by comparison and they know it, why else would they need a 5v1 gangbang? It's a real shame. Of all the directions this game could have gone, this is the least interesting. No plots within plots, no stunning coups of intrigue, just an old fashioned dogpile. 
January 26th, 2010, 17:12
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I think exactly opposite. If you Spulla were not stopped here this will become boring game with Spulla as a clear winner. On the other hand this war will bring more balance to the game.
Also, what is up with this Sullla. He thinks so low of his opponents.
m4gill4 Wrote:Yeah, once team spullla is eliminated there won't be much point in following this game anymore. The CoW members are all scrubs by comparison and they know it, why else would they need a 5v1 gangbang? It's a real shame. Of all the directions this game could have gone, this is the least interesting. No plots within plots, no stunning coups of intrigue, just an old fashioned dogpile.
Mwin
January 26th, 2010, 17:14
Bobchillingworth
Unregistered
m4gill4 Wrote:Yeah, once team spullla is eliminated there won't be much point in following this game anymore. The CoW members are all scrubs by comparison and they know it, why else would they need a 5v1 gangbang? It's a real shame. Of all the directions this game could have gone, this is the least interesting. No plots within plots, no stunning coups of intrigue, just an old fashioned dogpile.
Really? I think it would have been boring watching Spreadsheet Spulla tech peacefully and then pick everyone else apart with superior units. If they're eliminated or crippled no other civ will be left with an insurmountable advantage over the others and a real contest will emerge.
EDIT- crosspost with MWIN
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