[Spoilers - Flauros (sunrise089 and darrelljs)]

[darrelljs]

Oh, its also worth mentioning he connected Ice Mana last turn.

Darrell

[Thoth]

sunrise089 is right on the mechanics, and Kyan is correct that it will really hurt his economy. Losing 1F/1H on most of your tiles is not fun

Actually, the loss isn't quite that bad. It's only a 1f loss until the new forest turns back into an Ancient forest. (new forests provide +1h the same as regular/ancient forests).

[darrelljs]

Positive exchange with Ilios:

How are things?

I still haven't made up my mind on the AV Heroes, but I should be able to tell you in a couple of turns.

As for the NAP, I'd like to discuss some things with you before agreeing to one.

In the meantime, do you think you could trade away your Wheat for one of my resources?


Oh, and I don't know if you noticed, but Serdoa got a free golden age from an event. :/

Yeah. He got that golden age by popping a ruins. Inside my borders. Not happy. We've had some tense e-mail exchanges right now, as a result he's moved his army back towards our border. I still have mine sitting mostly in Prespur, but one vamp can haste them to the border if he moves in. My power is now pretty equivalent to his, so I'm no longer worried.

I'm embarrassed to say, but I can't remember if I have a spare Wheat resource. If I do, I would certainly be willing to trade it.

Sounds good also re: the AV heroes. We probably need to make a decision where to tech next very soon, but the first few techs are common in any case. Since, uh, we don't even have Mysticism ;-).

What's on your mind re: the NAP?

I am going to reply to Serdoa today for sure. I really am struggling with what to say, I've discarded a dozen drafts already . I wish we had rego on our team .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Serdoa dialed me up on gchat while I was typing up the final draft. AChat log, but there are some spoilers for other games he's playing that I've separated out. I appreciate the civility of the chat, I know people have complaints about Serdoa in the past but my experience has been fine:

Serdoa: hi, do you have time?
Darrell: Hey, was actually just drafting about my 12 version reply to your e-mail
It has been a difficult thing to find the correct wording for
Did you attack us?
Serdoa: no - I have no intention to do that. I do have my stack in my border city and I will attack next turn if we do not have a NAP by then. Not because I want that Darrell, but just because I won't get stalled and wait till you guys are ready to steamroll me.
Darrell: Well, sunrise089 and I have gone back and forth quite a bit on what's the right approach.
At this point we are in agreement that, due to metagame reasons, it doesn't seem like peace is likely.
Neither of us really have enough land to compete with uberfish or Ilios, and while we tried to find ideas on how we could work together with NTT on its just not easy.
You should now 100% this has nothing to do with the allegations cast against you, from what I could read in the games you've played, you never break deals.
Its important to me that you know that.
Serdoa: Well for the deals
I "broke" the one with Cyneheard because I did "lawyer" it so that I had a justification for my backstab by never having agreed to an attack on Tatan but only to an attack
so, I feel it is justified if he is pissed
Darrell: Yes...I do believe you can be machiavellian, but that's not a crime .
We felt as long as we were explicit with you on the terms, we would be okay.
The problem is (and I still prefer NTT, but let's face it makes every team an island to a large extent) is we can't see a way to work together effectively .
Aristofarms are good because they are fast, but they cap fast too.
Already we can see uberfish passing us by, and Ilios has room to expand.
Both of us need more land to win.
Serdoa: Yes - well, and if we are really long term allies and I feel that you are honest with me, then you do not need to be explicit. Otherwise - well, I don't trust someone who did talk bad behind my back in diplo (and nearly everyone is doing that, sometimes even your allies) and I had no deals with and I expect everyone else to do the same - I mean, would you trust someone who never talked with you only because now he comes and states that you are a nice guy?
Darrell: exactly
This was a painful decision, more for me I think because we've had what I consider fair and straightforward cooperation before.
But, in the end, its a game we play to win and levergaing vamps while we can looks like our only chance. Unfortunately your army survived fairly intact from the Ilios gambit.
Serdoa: Well, don't sweat it, I had "sold" you to Ilios kinda. I got peace by pretending to attack you soon. I then called that attack off because you had vampires (yeah, 2 I could see at that time...).
Darrell: I still think it would have been good to work together, we spent enough time early on that there were good relations .
Anyway, good luck (but not too much) on the battlefield.
We hav eto scramble units up now, since everyting is in prespur
Serdoa: well, I feel they are still good. I look forward for that war because I feel it will be kinda like the one with SL in PBEM5. Opponents but still kind talks about it

I had to snip the bottom half because we started to get into spoilers for other games he's in. The gist is we're going to war, but there is no hard feelings. We'll have some interesting decisions to make next turn, that's for sure. I do not believe he can take our border city at least, but the question is can we move successfully, and quickly? If we get bogged down in a stalemate, that's bad.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Okay, so interesting times finally . Here's what I see in Serdoa's lands when I get the turn:



That's 2 Catapults and 14 fairly well promted Warriors. Serdoa lacks HBR, so he can't take the Mobility promotion. I suspect he will consolidate in Argenteria next turn since the Catapults can't penetrate, but he could also move NE of Nubia. What have we come up with?



Obviously we burnt our gold. It was enough to deficit tech whichever religious hero we wanted, but at this point we bit the big bullet of burning it to upgrade bloodpets to Vampires. At a cool 213 gold per pop, its incredibly inefficent. The smarter play in hindsight would have been to tech Warfare (just one tech away) and draft Vampires. I don't know what I was thinking, but that's surely the next tech. Still, its not a total disaster. Our staging tile is SW of Nubia. Next turn we will have on that tile 2 Hunters (with Hawks), 2 Moroi, and 13 Vampires. We will get another 4 Vampires over the next two turns. All Vampires will have Mobility and Death 2, and one at least will have Body 2 for Regeneration. A tidy little force, yes? What did our power look like:



We don't see the bump. Not sure if Serdoa will since he's first in the turn order, but I hope not. What I do know (99%) is that any summoned Spectres won't die at turn roll-over, courtesy of a little worldbuilder test:



I created a hot seat game with Perpentarch first and the Calabim third, summoned a Spectre on the Calabim turn. It was still there during the Perpentarch turn. This has...implications. Oh, and Serdoa will likely know what we did, but I'm not sure he can react similarly, since he's got far less gold:



You can see Ilios also got Currency last turn. My guess is Guild of the Nine is his target.

Darrell

[NobleHelium]

Yeah, if spectres died on turn roll-over, that would be ridiculously stupid depending on where your opponent is relative to you in the turn order. Summons are checked for death on turn start I think, just like healing, etc.

[Square Leg]

I had to snip the bottom half because we started to get into spoilers for other games he's in. The gist is we're going to war, but there is no hard feelings.

Awww... To be fair - I have always found Serdoa fine to communicate with, sometimes a little hard to get hold of, but otherwise quite personable.

I think that Serdoa will see your power "bump" though since the graphs will have updated for him. I wonder what it will look like!

Good luck in the war!

[darrelljs]

I could probalby figure it out since someone posted the power numbers in the general forum . Serdoa likely expects it, since he has Currency he knows I have (well, had) lots of cash on hand.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Diplo exchange with Ilios:

Aha, I'd be pretty pissed off if someone pulled off that kind of move on me.

Yes, you even have two spare Wheat resources!

That is quite a large pile of gold you are sitting on, very useful for upgrades?

I am assuming that our ongoing discussion will remain confidential?

Because I can tell you that Serdoa has asked for my help against you, offering gold for every Calabim unit I kill, and splitting the pillage gold for every city of yours that has been captured/razed.
I haven't answered him yet, but he does seem certain that war will break out soon. Can you give me any details?

Yes, definitely still confidential. I did notice in game I have 3 Wheat resources, so I'd be happy to trade it for your spare gold. If that's acceptable feel free to propose it in game. It does not escape my notice this gives you a 10% commerce boost in your beer city, let's just call it a little apology for previous bad behavior :-).

We will be at war next turn I guess. I had a chat with him and he plans on coming in. I, uh, no longer have all that Gold. I do have several shiny new toys to play with though. It would have been nice to deficit research for the next 50 turns or whatever, but cest la vie. Frankly I think this war was inevitable after the previous debacle. In fact, I'm quite certain he planned on invading before this, but pulled back at the last second when he saw I had vamps. Its the only thing that explains his troop movements. Its interesting he put a bounty on my units, you should make him pay you for all the ones that died covering his stack earlier ;-).

Darrell

[darrelljs]

sunrise089, rather than upgrading another expensive unit to a Vampire, I'd rather deficit tech the ability to draft Vampires. Its only 2 turns I believe, and will make this war far easier.

Darrell