[SPOILERS - PBEM17] darrelljs - Elizabeth of Egypt

[darrelljs]

Turn 59 for the Galley to get to Kyan, then turn 61 to get to Japan, but then no easy route to the Ivory. So I think we go down to Kyan, but then back up through Japan.

Darrell

[Krill]

We need about 60 worker turns to cash in all of the chops. If you are going to plant and improve Cyan need 1 extra worker to go down there and then about 6 workers just chopping. Add in the extra 4 workers needed to keep up with tile improvements...

*shrug* settler from Brazil goes to Navy. Settler from India goes to Purple. Settler on galley goes for Black and the trade routes (Kyan has said he won't settle our tentacle, so just push him for an agreement in kind). That uses the workboat from Thailand for the fish in the inner ring and the wb from Japan for the other fish. That gives the city enough food to viable slave out a granary.

USSR can get grown to size 4 and steal the sheep, double slave something, likely a worker, then probably focus on getting a GP (We make StM agree to sail the GS to us, gift us the galley and we sail the GP back). Then we gift both. We want 100g by the turn he makes the shrine.

Brazil can go settler(scarlet)/worker(navy)/settler(navy)/workers(chops+slave) or something to that effect.

Japan can slave out a settler at size 6 for red, then get a few more wb if needed.

USA can focus on workers (make sure that the chop goes in on the turn of hte slave and not before, timing the worker with a road), which gives us 2 extra workers. Then it can get a settler for White

We need a second worker for the purple forest chop for granary. that could probably be the worker from USA though.

Oh, and take the 100 gold from StM. That is worth about an extra 100 beakers now (probably more like 130 later on) whereas 10% of shrine income is a paltry sum even game long.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Any thought to settling a GProphet? An extra 2hpt, 5gpt in the early game is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you settle him in the future shrine/Wall Street city which will also have a market/grocer/bank.

[NobleHelium]

What is this talk about 100 gold from StM with the prophet/scientist trade? I thought he wasn't going to get a GS for a long time, per what Darrell said?

[darrelljs]

Sent this to Shoot, proposing a GS for GP trade:

Shoot,

So I was talking to Krill, and for the first time all game he said I was being unreasonable in diplo ;-). He thought the 50% split was way over the top even with the built in delay. We talked about it a bit and figured that your temple plan was inferior for two reasons above and beyond the reliance on luck. First, for the price of a temple you could have 3 times the happiness with MP Archers, and second you get the most free spread benefit from an early shrine (especially to foreign cities), before you are forced to build missionaries. If you get 2 free spreads combined with the temple savings was worth about 100 hammers, and that 100 gold for 100 hammers is a good deal. So here's an offer I think is win/win:

1. You build a Galley and pop a GS as you discussed, and sail them over to Thailand where you gift it to us.
2. We build a Galley and pop a GP and sail it over to someplace you direct me to, and I'll gift it to you.
3. You gift me 50g once I give you the GP, and then another 50g once you build the shrine. Or you could just give us 100g up front :-P.

How does that sound?l

That's a pretty good deal for both of us, I get a little extra value for the GP since they are hard to generate, and Shoot gets a GP which is going to be difficult for him to generate.

Any thought to settling a GProphet? An extra 2hpt, 5gpt in the early game is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you settle him in the future shrine/Wall Street city which will also have a market/grocer/bank.

Its a thought...I think settling GPs can be a very good move if you are going for a super specialist wonder city, obsolete at CFC has shown it can work quite well. But, I think we are going to get more out of an Academy at Brazil. Even if we run the slider at say 50%, the city is capable of pulling 44 commerce/turn in the very near future. That works out to 11 beakers/turn, and the number will only go up. I think an Academy works out better for this particular game.

We need about 60 worker turns to cash in all of the chops. If you are going to plant and improve Cyan need 1 extra worker to go down there and then about 6 workers just chopping. Add in the extra 4 workers needed to keep up with tile improvements...

Well yeah, which is why I think we should have done a Worker first at Brazil. We've got five Worker now. Two are finishing a cottage pair at Japan before chopping at Brazil. One is chopping at USA before chopping at Brazil. One is going to road/improve the forest tentacle. One is roading/improving purple dot. That's three forest chops at Brazil, we are done after that, the three remaining are to be saved for Oxford. First new Worker is for forest tentacle, next two new Workers are probably to speed up the Paul Bunyan action.

*shrug* settler from Brazil goes to Navy. Settler from India goes to Purple. Settler on galley goes for Black and the trade routes (Kyan has said he won't settle our tentacle, so just push him for an agreement in kind). That uses the workboat from Thailand for the fish in the inner ring and the wb from Japan for the other fish. That gives the city enough food to viable slave out a granary.

Using this picture:



The settling source/order should be:

Brazil - cyan (next turn), blue, navy
USA - 1W of orange (following turn), red, pink
Japan - white, green
India - purple, lavender

Brazil can go settler(scarlet)/worker(navy)/settler(navy)/workers(chops+slave) or something to that effect.

I still like 2 Workers next at Brazil, followed by 2 chop boosted settlers, if possible in 6 turns . We need total of 214 hammers. We are about to get 60 from a whip next turn, and we will get another 60 from chops. Tile yield over the next 6 turns is easily 60. So triple whip Settler, grow to size 4 while building a Warrior, then double whip Worker. Overflow for another Worker then chop out the two Settlers. Eight turns I guess, since we need two turns to grow.

Japan can slave out a settler at size 6 for red, then get a few more wb if needed.

Yup, that makes sense. Green dot from here as well, but it can wait a bit since its a filler city.

USA can focus on workers (make sure that the chop goes in on the turn of hte slave and not before, timing the worker with a road), which gives us 2 extra workers. Then it can get a settler for White

USA is by far the best spot to settle the tentacle from. Its a hike to anywhere, but with a Galley its pretty fast. Japan is better for white dot since its so close.

We need a second worker for the purple forest chop for granary. that could probably be the worker from USA though.

Yeah, we need a second Worker everywhere though. I think the best way is to whip another one from India. Its right up there and we can stack the anger and get it quickly.

Good conversation here, we're not on the same page exactly but the discussion itself will result in better final actions .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

What is this talk about 100 gold from StM with the prophet/scientist trade? I thought he wasn't going to get a GS for a long time, per what Darrell said?

It will be in 14 turns based on a chat I had with him late yesterday. Figure another 6 turns travel time.

Darrell

[Krill]

Brazil - cyan (next turn), blue, navy
USA - 1W of orange (following turn), red, pink

No. Just no.

First of all, Cyan doesn't matter. All it gets are forests that you don't have the workers to chop yet. Blue just gets gold (that you don't have the food to work nor need the happiness from) and corn, but Navy gets ivory that is contested, horse that we can't see any more of and blocks off the tentacle from Kyan. Navy is the only important city there, the rest just plain suck on a strategic level, so Navy should be first.

Orange doesn't block anything off and is far from any any work boats so is slow growing. Pink and Black (Black is 1W of the sugar) are more important for blocking, and Black gets 2 fish (you can see them in the save but not on the map), is closer to where the work boats are, gives intercontinental trade routes so is worth about 7 commerce/turn, at least, plus the yield from tiles and it's own trade routes. Black is more important and a better city than Orange, so should be first and then fill the tentacle as needed afterwards.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

If 'Phants really are banned, I would consider blue before navy, but if you can build WEs, then you have to get down to navy.

[Krill]

If 'Phants really are banned, I would consider blue before navy, but if you can build WEs, then you have to get down to navy.

That ivory tile is accessible from Kyans' mainland and his borders are right on the FoW. He will shortly settle a city and claim our ivory, or build a galley and settle it himself.

We do not have the time to piss about and settle closer cities.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I thought Kyan agreed to stay off our island?