The gist of it was this. I talked to Kyan about NoSpace trying to claim the island from us. Kyan said StM wanted to cut OB this turn with NoSpace, and then that rego agreed with that (which had to come from StM as rego and Kyan don't have contact).
After that, I pointed out that our only issue with doing something is we felt we would be the prime target of retribution. Then StM said he would kill a NoSpace GM if we all agreed to declare war, which basically sealed the deal from my PoV. rego agreed and said hewould send a few triremes at NoSpace from the long way around. Kyan agreed to war because he is the #2 and wants to be the #1. I agreed to usurped Darrells power because I'm being greedy and want as much land as possible and we need to cripple Nospaces' research. And we've done that, now they are at 156 GNP, we are at 130 (I started research because we are hooking wines).
Then starting with Kyan, everyone played their turn and declared war on NoSpace. Next turn will likely be aslow one, they just lost 50GNP and a GM that they sent to StM. Painful...and it only took us about an hour to organize.
T64 was fairly easy to play. Continue with the settler slaves in the east and prepare the defensive slaves in the east.
Armies of workers...need to beware that HK can get one moved from the FoW, it needs spear archer pair there...or a galley to choke behind AP.
That's more reasonable. Kyan is top CY due to HG, he is about to slave about 15 pop though (we just slaved...4 this turn, 3 last turn, 3 next turn...)
Note that power isn't exactly spectacular. Around 75k power, they must be at at least 30 pop so 1k in pop, at least 20k in tech (we are at 26k). So no more than 40k in soldiers. So, 3 galleys, that's another 6k...probably axe or two, at most?
Krill Wrote:Note that power isn't exactly spectacular. Around 75k power, they must be at at least 30 pop so 1k in pop, at least 20k in tech (we are at 26k). So no more than 40k in soldiers. So, 3 galleys, that's another 6k...probably axe or two, at most?
My guess is Chariots. Speaking of which, if we had that Horse settled by now we could make our UU.
Okay, so here's the very long chat log between Krill, Kyan, Shoot, and rego:
Quote:Darrell: Boo! Krill: rego sucks Kyan: agreeing to no OB before rego joins and i get gagged
regoarrarr has joined rego: are you still at the store darrell?
00:19 Darrell: No Krill: Where were we?
00:20 We all need to do something about NoSpace? Shoot: exactly rego: we were all going to close borders with nospace because they've had the save for 15 minutes and haven't played it yet Shoot: haha Krill: you're screwed then rego
00:21 Darrells' phone is crashing again so I get promoted it seems Shoot: ok, so I'd say just do it next time everyone sees the save...no point waiting around is there? Krill: Well, there is one point Darrell asked me to make.
00:22 We have cities on their island, and an understanding (Darrells fault!) that we had a medium term deal for OB.
One issue that Darrell has is that he feels we wouldbear the brunt of any reprisal.
00:23 Personally I think we're screwed either way
00:24 but here's the point. We're able to keep you informed of troop movements if they do move on us, because we are hoping to a somewhat more permenant solution to this problem
Can someone please raze that bastard GLH? rego: that sounds very ominous coming from krill ;-)
brb Shoot: from Kyan: we could send a message explaining that this is a joint decision by the other players. However, if any one person is victimised for this, we will all react in turn
00:25 Krill: While I like that as a first step, I hope we all realise that we don't want to go the route that all "dog piles" have gone in the past, of one team crying uncle and wimping out.
00:26 If this were to start in 10 turns I'm about 95% sure we could handle most things
Happen this turn? Eh, not so sure
00:27 And yes I do appreciate that, say, 5 turns worth of OB with all of us is worth about 200 commerce
Which is basically MC. Shoot: does nospace have anything they could throw at you this turn anyway? Krill: in 10 turns
00:28 this turn? They are angling for another island city
I don't think we can stop them getting it. That would put them at at least 3 island cities they cn have
00:29 Kyan: i blame the rest of you for that
00:30 Krill: fwiw, if you lot all agreed to send that letter, settle towards NoSpace (that's the obvious choice anyway), and most importantly, declared war (to destroy the sustained peace bonus) Then I think I can persuade Darrell to do the same.
Problem is the guys a wuss
00:32 Shoot: I also have a bit of a situation with nospace currently
00:33 Krill: That's good to know Kyan: easy solution though... Shoot: they have a GM of theirs 1 tile away from one of my cities
if we close borders now and all declare war, I kill it Krill: OK
I'm sold Shoot: and will probably take more of the brunt of their anger than you guys
00:34 to piss them off that badly though (they will think I double crossed them in saying I would allow their GM into my city) I need assurances from you guys that this alliance doesn't deteriorate
00:36 Kyan: i would agree to all the above Krill: I don't want it to...that GNP isscary
rego?
You're hte guy with the triremes...
00:38 Shoot: in all honesty though I'd feel a lot safer not pissing them off and just allowing a gm mission (in a size 2 city absurdly close to them to boot), but if I have assurances of your backing I'd do it
00:39 Kyan: it wont make a difference. should be at least 650 gold minimum Krill: That's like an extra, what, 900 beakers to them?
That's a free CS, easy
they'd be at Lib by t100
00:40 Kyan: i have the turn
so we need a decision if you want it this turn Shoot: I do honestly feel bad about having told them they could go to my city and then killing it, but if that's the way it falls Krill: I'm happy to declare war this turn
And definately up for solidarity
StM, is the GLH city near you?
00:41 Because we are right up against the Pyramids city
if they leave either one underdefended it's a tasty target Shoot: let me check
give me a minute though, I'll need to check city order and where they settled first and old screenshots from them, so it could take a minute or two
00:42 Krill: no worries rego: hi
sorry i'm putting the kids to bed
back in about 10 mins
00:46 Shoot: I * think * it is close to me but I can't confirm it
00:47 Krill: Well, it's either the north or east I reckon... rego: KILL! KILL! KILL EM ALL! Krill: So that's a yes?
00:48 rego: yes to what Shoot: everyone declaring war on nospace this turn
kill their trade routes and get rid of peace bonus
00:49 and a yes to supporting either darrell/krill or I if they come after us heavily for revenge of either settling on their continent or killing their gm, respectively
00:50 Krill: 3 triremes wandering through their lands wouldn't go amiss
well
waters Shoot: through their lands would be quite amiss
00:52 rego: yeah i'll get some triremes that way
does anybody have any screenies of the north of their lands
i have a WB to the NE of their city of gold rush
wondering if it can make it somewhere safe Kyan: north of them
is me
00:53 Shoot: and east is me (although I don't know where gold rush is) Krill: We're south Shoot: oh, and everyone will need to be careful as the got circumnavigation last turn Krill: obviously
um
that works to both sentences Shoot: some of you I don't think have seen that news yet
00:54 Krill: I only saw it to see if they actually got a GM
Yes
Im busy working on MM
not really looking at that log
Just another reason to go hurt them
00:55 Darrell is happy to agree to everything discussed here
I've talked to him about it rego: they got circumnav?
it doesn't show up in my log? Shoot: that was more for kyan and darrell -- they haven't seen the news because of turn order
for some reason, it only showed up and the end of the actual turn, not just theirs
00:56 so once I hit enter it showed up rego: oh Kyan: ok, so all parties have definitely agreed to this?
before i end turn Shoot: yeah, so that's why I'm giving everyone the heads up
yeah, I guess (feel really guilty about baiting their gm, but them's the breaks)
00:57 rego, krill? rego: we'll do it Krill: We're doing it Darrell: Did I miss anything? Krill: even ifI have to hide Darrells body in a ditch somewhere Shoot: ok, it's a go then Kyan: mutual NAP for a period?
00:58 and all open borders with the others- to minimize loss of income and help us all gain on nospace Shoot: was just about to say that myself
00:59 I definitely want mutual open borders and am fine with whatever in regards to NAP Krill: I agree
my only reservation is if someone tries to steal each toehrs sites
ie settler spam
01:00 Shoot: mr 11 cities here Kyan: ok, just toe OB for now then?
i havent settled on anyones islands or continent! Krill: I've settled oon NoSpaces, I thought that was a plus? Kyan: haha
01:01 Shoot: haha rego: we'll OB with shoot this turn (Already h ave with krilljs) and kyan whenever we meet Kyan: next turn
01:02 Shoot: except of course you couldn't be saying that to rego right now Kyan: i didnt
you said that
for me Shoot: precisely
01:03 rego: lol Shoot: just as I did for rego there too rego: shoot can you tell kyan to go ahead and offer ob in game then next turn when he gets the civ?
civ = save Shoot: certainly, kyan go ahead and offer ob in game then next turn when he gets the civ?
civ = save
01:04 rego: btw this is hilarious
it's too bad all the lurkers are on pb4 Krill: Eh
You have bigger problems in that game Shoot: can you imagine the turn splits of this if it were pb?
01:06 Krill: I'm trying not to Shoot: got enough of that in pb3? Kyan: someone please tell rego he has the turn Krill: yes
rego hurry up or we dog pil you next
01:07 Shoot: and I'll nuke you in pbem 8 Kyan: i think there should be a no dogpiling rule to take place with immediate effect after this one rego: so now that kyan has passed the save on
are the rest of us in agreement that we were just kidding about the war declaring?
01:08 Krill: yeah, I thought we were supposed to be gifting gold to NoSpace? rego: no, that was to me Darrell: No Kyan: similar to how rego was kidding about building HG?
boom Krill: ouch rego: you suck Shoot: I'm not declaring war to kill the GM if the rest of you aren't, that's all I can say rego: who founded confucianism?
01:09 Kyan: nospace got a big tech last turn
so that would be them Krill: not discovered on our turn rego: kyan you declared war? I can't see
since i haven't met you Krill: so, NoSpace Kyan: i have rego: err shoot can you ask kyan that?
:-P Shoot: he has he said rego: great Kyan: hqhq rego: thanks for relaying that Kyan: *haha Krill: this should have gone off hte record so long ago... Shoot: no problem
also for your information rego, kyan cannot type
01:10 or at least not accurately type haha rego: thank you for alerting me to that Shoot: also, can you all hurry up and play the turn so rego and kyan can finally meet rego: that will come in handy in deciphering his communiques
once we finally meet
war declared
01:11 Krill: At least this is easier to organise than the damned t63 tech trading in PB3.
01:12 Shoot: with your best techer having met like 2 people? Kyan: you guys think you had things hard in that deal?
try being outside the frigging hydra
trying to reunite the rest of the world was interesting Krill: You trying building Oracle with with no BW Shoot: hehe Kyan: i raise your no BW Krill: Never. Again. Kyan: * i see your no BW Shoot: pretty sure you didn't chop a forest until maths was in that game, did you?
01:13 Kyan: and raise you TT as a turnplayer Krill: um
I fold? Kyan: haha Shoot: haha, whoever posts this chat in their spoiler thread should cut that out rego: shoot with war i lost my trade routes with darrell Krill: You trypersuading StM to declare war so we can get an easy turn split in a war
01:14 Kyan: someone please relay rego's comment, if he made any
so i know whether to respond or not Shoot: hey, it worked out so I didn't lose my capital!
rego, you are being told by kyan to play the damned turn faster so that he can say something dreadfully important to you Krill: rego, just send a wb west
from the end of your tentacle Kyan: i didnt say that Krill: we're sending one towards you now for TR
01:15 Shoot: as far as rego knows you did rego: i'm playin man Kyan: if rego has OB with me, or rather when, he should get trade routes back with darrell Shoot: better think of something important to say fast Krill: get another beer? rego: tell kyan that i won't have TRs with him Shoot: haha @ krill Kyan: tell rego he's a lazy bugger as i'm his neighbour and starting to feel left out
01:16 Shoot: you might through me rego rego: done! Kyan: im off to bed chaps
nite all Shoot: next turn I think I should have TRs with Kyan Kyan: someone tell rego nite from me Krill: cya Kyan. Don't know when you can expect the save tomorrow Kyan: depends how bad they rage lol
Kyan has left
01:17 rego: man shoot and krilljs
you guys must really suck
if you're behind ME in score Shoot: one gm less in this game... rego: lol
01:18 Shoot: and I feel like a complete douche for it too Krill: You get used to it Shoot: hahahaha Krill: Darrell is pissed, says I've turned him into a liar. He forgets he has been one since PBEM2
OTOH
01:19 He also liked theidea of a dead GM
That guy has some identity issues. Shoot: I can confirm nospace has confucianism
I can see the holy city rego: which city is it? Krill: oooh
another target
01:20 Shoot: trading post
their eastern most
01:21 rego: would a trireme be better on the north or south of their west tentacle?
(both of course but where shoudl the first one go) Krill: north rego: ok Krill: we have the south visibility, there is nothing down there
we basically control that via culture
01:22 the north we have no vis on
you got any idea how long it would take a triremem to get there? Shoot: I know the tentacle from a map rego: 14 turns Krill: that's a long way
01:23 Shoot: ah yes, you would know it better than I anyway, haha rego: that's to gold rush
which is the first coastal city i can see Krill: StM, you got a city on your tentacle that is a canal city? And if so, any idea how long it would take a trireme to get there, rego? rego: i doubt it's much sooner
01:24 Krill: probably true Shoot: which tentacle?
jungle or northern? Krill: south Shoot: not on south, no rego: i was going east to them
away from the jungle tentacle
01:27 Shoot: rego, I have TRs with Kyan but not you, so if you can defog to me you should have all the TRs you need I believe (if I understand TR mechanics correctly) rego: okay
i'll see what i can do
01:28 so on the regoarrarr scale
where does them opening the save tomorrow to find everyone has declared war on them rank?
01:29 Krill: 0.8 rego: wow i was going around 0.25
though i forgot about the merchant Krill: that would be if we cut OB
Merchant is 0.25 rego: i think 0.8 is too high Krill: war is 0.3, when it is with everyone
01:30 rego: shoot - the regoarrarr is the unit of measurement for disappointment / shock / horror upon opening a save
01:31 i think we go about 0.5-0.6 Krill: 1 = finding some total bastard has just razed your capital, when, what, 8 turns from an SS win?
01:32 rego: no it was like 3t
yes
that's the scale Shoot: haha
yeah, the gm definitely adds to it
anyway, I need to go for dinner
01:33 rego: i coined it after errr a certain turn in errr pbem8
in my thread
which is why krill knows about it already but you don't Shoot: but you weren't anywhere near completing a SS
01:34 Krill: Um rego: no it references pb1 Krill: He is closer than you right now... rego: but i didn't actually come up with the scale till pbem8 Shoot: in pbem 8?
01:35 I've gotta run ,so talk to you guys later
01:36 Krill: cya rego: by guyes
regoarrarr has left
Upshot is:
1. We all declared on nospace.
2. Shoot killed nospace's Great Merchant.
3. We are in a NAP/OB with everyone for an unspecificed time frame.
4. I'm now a scummy hypocritical liar .
My chat with Krill:
Quote:Krill: please please get back here asap
7:46 PM OK, I'm hereby assuming executive authority... Darrell: Sigh Krill: yeah
StM is going to kill a GM Darrell: I absolve myself of any decisions made during the coup Krill: if we all agree to declare war Darrell: Nice!
7:47 PM Krill: That's going in the thread
Looking good
Kyan is up for it
7:48 PM StM wants to do it
if the rest of us do
I'm willing to considering hte power graph
and rego is going to weasel his way out somehow
7:51 PM Are you willing to declare war if the rest do?
That's the question
7:52 PM We have enough gold for 5 turns of 100% tech
7:54 PM that's about 300 beakers of Feud left
7:55 PM Darrell: Wait 3t
7:56 PM Krill: to start teching?
think only need to wait 2t
7:57 PM Turn is going to shoot round and then stop dead for a day
8:00 PM Darrell: Updat post eta? Krill: post eta?
mail?
8:02 PM Darrell: I figure this desrerves mention on the dorum Krill: oh, it will be
before and after shot of F9 and F4
blue lines, turning red Darrell: Sigh
8:03 PM Krill: shrug
They played a damned good game Darrell: You've made me a liar Krill: no
I'm hiding you in a cupboard Darrell: I said I wouldn't join a dogpile Krill: also, go re-read the emails
Considering PBEM2
8:04 PM I'm not sure you weren't already
Mr. Gold Island
8:05 PM Darrell: Eh?
Can shoot kill the gm this turn? Krill: yes
he gets the save
declares war
kills the GM Darrell: Cutthroat bunch
On a boat?
8:06 PM Krill: dunno
He just said, it dies Darrell: Can't see how otherwise
8:08 PM Gold to nospace?
8:10 PM Krill: joke
rego said that now Kyan has DoW'd. are we in agreement it is all a joke
8:11 PM rego lost HG on turn order, btw
Kyan is thrilled
rego is screwed
6 minutes
8:18 PM Krill: StM: one gm less in this game...
35 minutes
8:54 PM Krill: ok, the turn needs discussing
8:55 PM NoSpace planted the settler...1N of hte end of hte tentacle
7 minutes
9:02 PM Darrell: its back to us alrady? Krill: yes
F4 is pretty Darrell: ddi we agree to dow this turn or in two turns?
and did everyone else DoW? Krill: This turn
9:03 PM everyone DoW'd
literally
everyone http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj417...ot0528.jpg Darrell: even if our borders popped he would be ablet o settle that spot, yes? Krill: no Darrell: dude we need garrisons in the north
9:04 PM Krill: and he has settled already Darrell: horribly, terrible Krill: and he has no garrisons either Darrell: preist in USA
really? Krill: not in new city
2 workers chopping out a granary though
9:05 PM Darrell:http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj417...ot0525.jpg Krill: their power isabout hte same as ours, they have more pop so more power though
taken eot Darrell: and can get metal casting,e tcl
the only thing is at least everyone else did it
and shoot killed the GM
so, uh...
main target I woudl think
course he has axes Krill: yeah Darrell: are we allowed to say we plan on making no offensive moves at least? Krill: we can chop out the granary this turn, turn into archer next turn
9:06 PM then slave the turn after
I wouldn't say it Darrell: ok
I have to find some way to respond to that email
did you forward the chat logs? Krill: I'd say that we feel they can't be allowed to play on unmolestered.
to you, now Darrell: how much trade income did e lave? Krill: he lost over 50 gnp Darrell: its pretty slimey promsing OB then declaring war
jesus
need to defog shoot and rego asap
9:07 PM Krill: that's all tech he lost as well Darrell: oh he did
waht about us?
back in 20
you might be asleep Krill: shrug
doubt it
9 minutes
9:17 PM Darrell: I gotta reply to that email now
find some wya Krill: Say they've played a good game
But we aren't going to just let them play a peaceful game and out tech us off a single wonder.
9:18 PM Or that We're happy to race them to the island Darrell: yeah, but its a pretty slimey wayt o get out of our deal Krill: and to their new city
don't forget, they need units now as well Darrell: yeah Krill: Er Darrell: saving grace is its a concerted effort Krill: We agreed to a substantial length OB, right? Darrell: yeah
no number that I could say Krill: We gave the 50 turns as an example, and they agreed Darrell: see
9:19 PM 50t was probabl what they expected Krill: now, I agree that it's not exactly a nice way to get out of it
9:20 PM Darrell: I never lied in pbem2
9:21 PM Krill: Youdid rectify the situation by gifting me two cities though Darrell: It was a misunderstanding, I assumed you'd agreed to the deal when I sent it, and I guess you didn't think you had
and yes, I did rectify it Krill: the only difference here is hopefully we don't rectify anything
9:22 PM Darrell: yeah
9:23 PM sent reply
forwarded to you
going to get a very late dinner now Krill: cya in a bit
9:24 PM Darrell: we have the save still? Krill: yes Darrell: ok
don't wait oin me to play it Krill: need your advice on USSR
can we go for the northern island city?
9:25 PM would need to chop galley and overflow spear
and can I stack slavery unhappy to slave a worker at China
and can I tech to Monarchy now, to hook those wins?
*wines
10 minutes
9:36 PM Darrell: yes, yes, and yes I guess
in for a dime, in for a dollar Krill: good
means I can chop the granary in HK then
it finishes this turn
9:37 PM or
9:38 PM I can chop it into an axe in HK
personally prefer the granary
can slave an axe/archer at size 2 if wanted Darrell: granary for sure
And, my note to nospace:
Darrell Wrote:Well this all became moot rather fast. You're not going to be happy with anyone when you get the save back. There's no point in trying to make excuses with you, but I will say its your own fault from playing such a tight game so far ;-). Things developed...quickly, I guess and here we are.
I don't see any point in trying to justify what just happened to them because...its impossible. I'm basically now a hypocritical liar and it would be selfish to try and hand wave away my role in it. In the end its my civ and if I had wanted to put a stop to it I could have. So, if/when you read this nospace, sorry .
Yeah, what we did obviously wasn't nice, but we might as well call the game right now if they were going to us the GM for a trade mission and then tech to Lib in about 15 turns. They played a solid game and we let them do it - I felt (and still do, to an extent) that we could have kept up with them in tech if they hadn't gotten the Pyramids, but that puts them over the top. I'd hold that it's the best (early) game played on RB so far.
Quote:Yeah, what we did obviously wasn't nice, but we might as well call the game right now if they were going to us the GM for a trade mission and then tech to Lib in about 15 turns. They played a solid game and we let them do it - I felt (and still do, to an extent) that we could have kept up with them in tech if they hadn't gotten the Pyramids, but that puts them over the top. I'd hold that it's the best (early) game played on RB so far.
Well you didnt read all the spoiler threads i supose, and Mids its a very strong wonder isn't?
Depends how you use it. Rep for happy doesn;t really give a huge bonus in itself, and you still have to trade 2 food for 7.5 beakers. But on top of the GLH, it'll put them out of reach too quickly, even if we'd be able to out grow them in the long run. They'd just come at us with circumnavigation powered galleons and frigates and we'd have a dog pile later on.
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