[SPOILERS] PB9 Lurker Thread

[Serdoa]

Fuck Moai. Settle in place. Get an early granary and rely on whips.

Of course, that works too.

[Sareln]

Actually, this could be a fun exercise. Given the starts that we can see (and I'm going to put them all in spoilers in this post) how would you open for each one?

• Isabella (SPI/EXP) of France (Agriculture/Wheel) (TT)
  
  
• Augustus (IND/IMP) of Inca (Agriculture/Mysticism)(CommBrick)
  
  
• Pericles (PHI/CRE) of Khmer (Hunting/Mining)(Jowy)
  
  
• Hannibal (CHA/FIN) of Native America (Agriculture/Fishing)(AT)
  
  
• Huayna Capac (FIN/IND) of Zulu (Agriculture/Hunting)(CQ)
  
  
• Sury (CRE/EXP) of Mongolia (Hunting/Wheel)(2metra)
  
  
• Louis (CRE/IND) of Rome (Fishing/Mining)(Azza)
  
  

[Krill]

Move the scout first, find out if something worthwhile is hidden in the fog (probably move him 1-1 on the GLH, there are a bunch of forests to the west it seems, but maybe something worth in the south - you could go 7-4 instead, but I think you can find out with fog gazing that those are only forests (no resources)).

I probably would scout 1-1 therefore, and depending on what I see decide to settle. As they are IMP/IND I'd probably settle right now 1N. Yields 7 forests in the BFC, Pig, PH, GLH. Sheep can be gotten by a second city. PH is stronger when you produce settlers anyhow. And moving on the PH and therefore losing EVERY hill you have is not going to help you produce those settlers. Start researching AH (I have no clue about map size etc. so I just have to guess that you finish it with your first worker), pasture the pig while researching mining. Mine the PH, mine the GLH while you grow to 3. You reach size 3 at EOT17 and start a settler. You produce 14 fh for 3 turns, then the GLH-Mine finishes as well, making you produce 15fh. At EOT 22 you finish your 1st settler. Your worker finishes the road on the forest 1SE of the capital on T23, early enough that your settler can move 3-3-6 and settle T24. That turn your worker starts improving the sheep. Your second worker finishes EOT26 (together with the sheep pasture) and 8 hammers overflow. On EOT30 you finish your 2nd settler and your 3rd worker (in the second city).

And if you chop after your pastured the sheep with both workers, you can produce 30h overflow on T31, added to 11fh produced normally and therefore finish a 4th worker. If you have BW finished at that point, not certain without knowing map-size, difficulty etc. - depending on that you'll have to change your plans considerably anyhow).

I think due to that you have to get AH first, it is kinda hard to come up with a quicker plan without having to deforest the whole area. And you don't want that as with the 5 forests left you can relatively easily build TGLighthouse. And of course, all of that depends on the scouting info, from T0 on forward. And on that you actually want TGL, otherwise SIP. That leaves you definitely with possible coastal-spots and therefore is fine. You might even SIP if you want TGL, as you will build it with chops and probably get a quick Maths (AH -> Mining -> TW -> BW -> Fishing -> Pottery -> Writing -> Sailing -> Maths (chops for TGL come in turn after Maths finishes) and till you have that, you will have settled other cities as viable for it anyway.

BW can't be done before T33 if you settle in place. Not enough commerce. Can't finish AH until T13 either, so settling on the plains hill isn't even that good, because you are still commerce limited and only get the pig hooked two turns before settling in place or 1N rather than 3. You can get the pig hooked and then get the worker onto the grass hill before you can finish Mining (you finish it eot T21 because you lose commerce from working the pig over the sheep, and FWIW working the sheep over the pig whilst building the worker saves a turn on AH). Hooking the sheep second uses 2 worker turns just to move to the damned sheep and you get no hammers into a settler that way so I don't know if it is that good. The grass hill is 1/5 when building the settler after all, so perhaps growing to size 3 whilst waiting for the mine to finish is the best thing to do, worst case you can slave that pop after BW comes in.

[Sian]

Actually, this could be a fun exercise. Given the starts that we can see (and I'm going to put them all in spoilers in this post) how would you open for each one?

• Isabella (SPI/EXP) of France (Agriculture/Wheel) (TT)
  

probably sending the scout SWSW and reconsider

• Augustus (IND/IMP) of Inca (Agriculture/Mysticism)(CommBrick)
  

ragequit ... or sending scout SWSW

• Pericles (PHI/CRE) of Khmer (Hunting/Mining)(Jowy)
  

if there are waves in the waters in the fog to the southeast, then move scout SE,S ... it might be worthwhile settling there even with a bit of tundra

• Hannibal (CHA/FIN) of Native America (Agriculture/Fishing)(AT)
  

SIP, building a worker, while researching Mining->BronzeWorking->AnimalHusbandry, followed by building a single workboat while waiting on getting to size 3 to build a settler (worker starting with farming rice and then probably mine the sheep), scout around for interesting stuff

• Huayna Capac (FIN/IND) of Zulu (Agriculture/Hunting)(CQ)
  

Cheer and settle sugar (weakest improved tile in the game IMHO, and it gives 3f from settling on it ... sign me up), starting Worker moving directly towards Bronze working followed by pottery

• Sury (CRE/EXP) of Mongolia (Hunting/Wheel)(2metra)
  

though one ... either SSE or ESE (later if the water got waves) and reconsider

• Louis (CRE/IND) of Rome (Fishing/Mining)(Azza)
  

sending scout SSE and most likely settle 1e ... probably starting with getting a warrior since a worker won't have much to do given the need to get to animal husbandry to improve food

[Serdoa]

BW can't be done before T33 if you settle in place. Not enough commerce. Can't finish AH until T13 either, so settling on the plains hill isn't even that good, because you are still commerce limited and only get the pig hooked two turns before settling in place or 1N rather than 3. You can get the pig hooked and then get the worker onto the grass hill before you can finish Mining (you finish it eot T21 because you lose commerce from working the pig over the sheep, and FWIW working the sheep over the pig whilst building the worker saves a turn on AH). Hooking the sheep second uses 2 worker turns just to move to the damned sheep and you get no hammers into a settler that way so I don't know if it is that good. The grass hill is 1/5 when building the settler after all, so perhaps growing to size 3 whilst waiting for the mine to finish is the best thing to do, worst case you can slave that pop after BW comes in.

My bad, forgot that we are on normal speed in PBs always. All that talk from me was considering quick speed. And all done in my head with the timings I'm used to from most of the PBEMs.

[Krill]

Figured it would be, but TBH I was thinking the same thing. The main problem for these starts is that large and huge map sizes really do slow down the tech pace, and those players stuck going AH first are going to be 15 turns late to BW.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Once a scout is gifted he will not be destroyed. He'll just get passed around. In fact, this might require fewer total hammers if the scouts continue to bounce back and forth (unless a player decides to hoard them).

Would it be apropos if Twinkletoes hoarded the scouts in case someone invaded him? Running the TT defense with scouts built by someone else would be amusing, especially if it worked.

[superjm]

I'm going to pay special attention to how the players handle these starts and what lurkers would do with it. Starting properly always seems to be a weakness of mine and I wonder if that's more lack of experience or lack of knowledge.

[Lewwyn]

I'm actually really interested in lurking this... I can't look away.

[NobleHelium]

Well AT has the best start. Commodore is #2.