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[no players] Warsighs of the Newb: An Experiment in Lurking.

#131
May 28th, 2013, 17:43
Nicolae Carpathia Offline
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Hmm, the land I'm exploring sucks. I dunno, maybe because it's all snow!?
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#132
May 28th, 2013, 17:49 (This post was last modified: May 28th, 2013, 17:49 by Krill.)
Krill Offline
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It gets worse. By T35-ish he should have 4 food resources hooked (corn, deer, fish, capital clam), 5 pop, 2 workers and only 2 forests chopped. And 2 cities. He is likely to have zero forests, 2 cities, 3 pop at best and 1 hooked food resource, the corn, and that's if he actually researched Agri because I haven't checked. By T50 I could get that start to a position it will take Kuro 80+ turns to reach.

Whilst I agree with Sullla that there does come a point where lurkers can end up effectively playing the entire turn for someone, I'm not sure how to teach Kuro that he is doing basically everything wrong. Not trying to flog a dead horse here, but seriously: how, as a community, do we teach such a recalcitrant poster? Or do we just exclude them from future games because of the unbalancing effect? Because I don't think Kuro can even fit into a greens game after reading his thread, it spoils the game for the greens players.
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23

Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6:  PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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#133
May 28th, 2013, 19:03
Bigger Offline
Hey!! Listen!!
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(May 28th, 2013, 17:49)Krill Wrote: It gets worse. By T35-ish he should have 4 food resources hooked (corn, deer, fish, capital clam), 5 pop, 2 workers and only 2 forests chopped. And 2 cities. He is likely to have zero forests, 2 cities, 3 pop at best and 1 hooked food resource, the corn, and that's if he actually researched Agri because I haven't checked. By T50 I could get that start to a position it will take Kuro 80+ turns to reach.

Whilst I agree with Sullla that there does come a point where lurkers can end up effectively playing the entire turn for someone, I'm not sure how to teach Kuro that he is doing basically everything wrong. Not trying to flog a dead horse here, but seriously: how, as a community, do we teach such a recalcitrant poster? Or do we just exclude them from future games because of the unbalancing effect? Because I don't think Kuro can even fit into a greens game after reading his thread, it spoils the game for the greens players.

lol, thats a little dramatic. someone has to lose, even in the greens game. you kick out the players that are too good for greens games, not too bad.

anyway, there were 4-5 of us that tried to correct him early, probably even going to far in the advice. he rejected it. so there's no point really now, heh. when his game is over and he reads this thread, he's either going to learn from his mistakes, or he's going to be embarassed and not post for another year, I'm afraid. so I don't think it will be an ongoing problem either way.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
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#134
May 28th, 2013, 19:46
Commodore Offline
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And what I didn't say...if on the same turn I meet HC/Russia two dozen tiles away and a mysterious Kublai Khan of Rome...I'm not worrying about HC.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

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#135
May 28th, 2013, 22:39
Merovech Offline
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(May 26th, 2013, 08:08)Krill Wrote: Read: He's stupid.

Is nobody going to call Krill on this? Extrapolating poor civ skills, or even poor logic, to someone's intelligence is not a valid exercise.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#136
May 28th, 2013, 22:51
teleh Offline
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(May 28th, 2013, 22:40)NobleHelium Wrote: So did you sophomores win the game yet?

Tch, that's paraphrasing at best.

Bloody sophomores, I despise them almost as much as.. varsity... seniors... or something. smoke
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#137
May 28th, 2013, 22:54 (This post was last modified: May 28th, 2013, 22:56 by TheHumanHydra.)
TheHumanHydra Offline
[Redacted] delenda est
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(May 28th, 2013, 22:39)Merovech Wrote:
(May 26th, 2013, 08:08)Krill Wrote: Read: He's stupid.

Is nobody going to call Krill on this? Extrapolating poor civ skills, or even poor logic, to someone's intelligence is not a valid exercise.

I agree, but was too cowardly to say so. I do think some of the criticisms of Kuro have gone too far, not in content but in tone.

(Please don't shoot me. scared)
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#138
May 28th, 2013, 23:15
NobleHelium Offline
Terse Lurker. Competence First.
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(May 28th, 2013, 22:39)Merovech Wrote:
(May 26th, 2013, 08:08)Krill Wrote: Read: He's stupid.

Is nobody going to call Krill on this? Extrapolating poor civ skills, or even poor logic, to someone's intelligence is not a valid exercise.

Poor logic is not correlated with intelligence? I'm not sure what definition of intelligence you're using.
Civilization IV: 21 (Bismarck of Mali), 29 (Mao Zedong of Babylon), 38 (Isabella of China), 45 (Victoria of Sumeria), PB12 (Darius of Sumeria), 56 (Hammurabi of Sumeria), PB16 (Bismarck of Mali), 78 (Augustus of Byzantium), PB56 (Willem of China)
Hearthstone: ArenaDrafts Profile No longer playing Hearthstone. wink
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#139
May 29th, 2013, 03:11
Gavagai Offline
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(May 28th, 2013, 19:46)Commodore Wrote: And what I didn't say...if on the same turn I meet HC/Russia two dozen tiles away and a mysterious Kublai Khan of Rome...I'm not worrying about HC.

This. I was really surprised by Oxy's metagaming.
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#140
May 29th, 2013, 03:37
teleh Offline
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(May 28th, 2013, 22:54)TheHumanHydra Wrote:
(May 28th, 2013, 22:39)Merovech Wrote:
(May 26th, 2013, 08:08)Krill Wrote: Read: He's stupid.

Is nobody going to call Krill on this? Extrapolating poor civ skills, or even poor logic, to someone's intelligence is not a valid exercise.

I agree, but was too cowardly to say so. I do think some of the criticisms of Kuro have gone too far, not in content but in tone.

(Please don't shoot me. scared)

I agree too and cowardly's a good word. I have the added disincentive of having already made and arse of myself in this game.

But Kuro's not going to have a great time reading at least the most recent section of this thread when it comes time, so for what it's worth - Kuro, I don't mind your mistakes so much, and your enthusiasm outweighs a lot.

Ahem.. now that said I'm not sure why TGL as a concept occurs only at this stage. And that island-looking thing to the east of cap only a tile or so away looks pretty good. Accessible, at least. Thus TGL and island-hopping was kind-of what I was going for in the 50-turn challenge response, but I chopped too many forests and tried to wait for maths first frown turn 91 is too late, even with 3 settlers standing at the borders.

How's about this for an idea - (probably the least disinteresting thing in this post) - the 50-turn challenge for all players and starts? Post your T50 save with a territory screenshot for accessibility?

Just a thought!
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