Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[TheHumanHydra]

See? This is why we should do a SMAC pbem.

[Thoth]

I'd lurk that.

[Commodore]

See? This is why we should do a SMAC pbem.

I'd love to read the ban list for that game. Put it this way, SMAC(X) makes FFH look balanced...

[Commodore]

Rolling back a bit to Krill's topic; am I understanding that you're looking at cutting the tech cost early? I think the cost for Industrial+ are probably too much (I.E., is it even possible for plako to launch a space ship in 200 more turns?), but I love the longer Med/Ren eras, that's a wonderful stage of the game and it's lovely to see it for longer.

[Bigger]

See? This is why we should do a SMAC pbem.

I'd love to read the ban list for that game. Put it this way, SMAC(X) makes FFH look balanced...

the obvious solution: ban nothing! or everything

[Krill]

Mediaeval tech costs were unaltered. Ren eras are to be brought back a bit so instead of it being a cliff it's more of a steep hill, Ind era unchanged. On top of that though is the probable change to the known tech bonus that sees that start out at 0 but get increased by 25 at techs like Writing, Paper and then a few Ren and Ind era techs.

Long story short, tech costs are a little easier early on unless you are the front runner in which no change to base BtS. Ind costs I'm actually less concerned about, but I don't want to use PB8 as an example of it is still an extant game.

[pindicator]

Do you think the camel archer needs any kind of buff (reduced cost?) Or is Arabia ok?

[Krill]

Not really, IIRC it comes with 20% base withdrawal chance, in which case F2 CA are pretty good on defence or with spies revolting city defenses. I'd consider if the UB ought to be cheaper IF ORG lost the lib bonus though (meaning no traits made libs cheaper).

[Krill]

Intrested. AI-diplo is a must and I would prefer NTT although I'm ok giving a try to NTB game, if it si RBMod.

I would prefer maximum randomness and natural look and feel of the map (i.e. not overbalanced). However could be convinced to do with less e.g. Events are by no means nescessary and we could try also Torusland script for a change. After all we've had quite a few B&S games already.

If it is RBmod there is no need for massive changes. However I would suggest these changes:
* Organized: Library bonus removed

Going to do this. Corollary is that the Arabian UB (library replacement, extra culture, 2 priest slots) needs to be made cheaper, probably to 60 hammers from 90.

* Aggressive: Give Market+monument bonus (I don't care about flavor or any other aspect here. Just give them something to bring them closer to the rest of the traits)

I've asked T-hawk to look at giving AGG lower city maintenance costs. EXP gets the cheap market. Monuments unchanged.

* Creative: Give Observatory bonus (or restore Library bonus)

Gets the Observatory bonus

* Tech steal misson costs increased or tech stealing totally removed. Base cost is currently 1.5 beaker cost. I would increase that to 2* the beaker cost.

I'm thinking of removing the coutner espionage mission of just doubling hte base costs for every single espionage mission. That would remove the problem of the counter espionage mission being broken in sequential order games as well. Ideally I'd also like to remove some of the stuff like religion making missions cheaper but I don't know where to do that.

* "Nukes" can kill with direct hit or collateral

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid217202

If nukes are to be capable of killing units there needs to be a counter to them other than making them horrendously expensive (and being comparable to an economic win condition).

* Cristo Redentor is useless. If somehow could be changed to change 1 civic at a time every 2nd turn that would be my preference. Otherwise keep it as is (i.e. useless)

Probably best keep it as useless.

* Known tech bonus fix (discussed elsewhere). Spread the bonus increases over more tehcs than currently to finally reach 150%
* Tech cost increased more smoothly after paper

Intent is to make Map trading increase the known tech bonus by 25, and make the known tech bonus increase at Writing, Paper, Corp, Sci Meth, Steam Power and Electricity

* Salon restored to its original form (France is good neough)

France does get nerfed by the Hunting/pasture change (as do the other Agri/Wheel civs). On top of that the UB can be a negative due to forced artist GPP. I disagree that the original UB is good enough, but other changes are perhaps appropriate such as increasing the tech bonus from 25% to 35%.

Then some bug fixes. It is probably sufficient just to state these shouldn't be exploited. However if they are easy to fix I would do that:
* Diplo window + pause button
* Trade route bug (SevenSpirits has easy fix to this in exploits thread http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=4353)
* Build culture/wealth/science bug (see Exploits thread)
* Oracle/Liberalism eternal techs
*... Probably lots of these - No time to dig up them all

If Seven, T-hawk, or anyone else knows how to fix these and wants to do it (or liase with T-hawk) I would welcome that.

[scooter]

So I haven't followed this thread in awhile, so if this has been discussed at length I'll settle for a tl;dr version. Can we get the Astro bulb option unblocked by any chance?