Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[Krill]

For normal speed?

T0-50:
Large boost: Exp, Cre, Imp, Pro
Useful: Agg, Ind if going for Henge/Oracle/GLH
Weak/Situational: Org, Fin, Spi (mostly saves a turn while 1st settler is moving)
Nearly useless: Phi, Chm

Early slavery: stacking whip unhappiness. As 1 pop whips are more more than 2 pop whips the ability to stack these instead of having to grow to size 4 means that you can generate more hammers, and access the sooner, whilst still being able to work tiles. Food dependent, but then what start and traits aren't. It's a snowball.

If barbs are enabled: occasionally quicker W2 warrior.

T51-150:
Is Chm top-tier here? Every trait is valuable here, but I'd have a hard time saying that Chm is the strongest trait here.

Strongest? Probably not. Does have flexibility however, in starts with no happiness, just as FIN has flexibility in dry starts with no rivers or high coast games.


[quote[T151+ (post-land grab, Paper):
Strongest traits: Fin, Spi, Phi?[/quote]

The strongest traits are those that give boni that cannot be duplicated by other means (and are still relevant). PHI falls off due to the increasing GP thresholds (exponential?) ORG saves costs that can't be saved by any other way, and lowers inflation. FIN generates commerce no other trait can. AGG, PRO and CHM give free or extra promotions and enable different tactics to be utilised. CHM could be considered one of the more valuable traits IF the game is likely to devolve into stack naval warfare.

So here's the thing: Chm is definitely one of the slowest traits out there, and is it better than nerfed Fin when it's at its best? Fin benefits from Water maps too, it's a slow trait, but instead of "up to 2 more pop, 2 more whips, or 1 more draft" it's "multiple commerce each turn".

Extra commerce is useless if all the coastal cities are razed.

[Commodore]

I'd generally say leave it alone, although PB13 won't be a test bed for the trait like the other traits. It may be the weakest now, but it's situationally powerful and the RBmod trait spread is far, far lower than BtS. Pacal vs. Churchill in RBmod vs. BtS? Not even close.

[pindicator]

Probabilities don't matter at all for this though.

NobleHelium has a perfectly fine point. Your 6th point of happiness will help most of your cities. Your 20th point of happiness will only affect a few.

Also as scooter pointed out, your 6th population point is more valuable than your 20th because it works your 6th-best tile, and it costs less food to create too.

I'm coming to the argument late, but I think the timing of when you get the happiness also comes into play. CHM is good because you get that +2 happiness at the start of the game for free, without having to do any resource hooking-up or wonder-building or anything. You can grow your capital and first few cities larger than other people and work roughly 33% more population. Early on that's a big advantage. Later in the game it will diminish as resources are found, yes.

[SevenSpirits]

I've had PBEM games where I was getting so much happiness from resources that I couldn't grow fast enough to make use of it all while still expanding enough. Charismatic there would have been almost useless. It's really map-dependent! Other aspects of the game are also nerfed when maps have too much happiness: drama, monarchy, temples, even markets... I like it when those things are more valuable.

[NobleHelium]

There's a reason why I've been saying for a long time that it's stupid for every resource to be on every map...

[mackoti]

I still belive as its now Cha its the weakest trait(did you seen how many people rejected it) and getting it cheap libraries will nor even put him in top 4 why then not gave cheap librarie and people to say about it its good i'll take it.

[Krill]

I've had PBEM games where I was getting so much happiness from resources that I couldn't grow fast enough to make use of it all while still expanding enough. Charismatic there would have been almost useless. It's really map-dependent! Other aspects of the game are also nerfed when maps have too much happiness: drama, monarchy, temples, even markets... I like it when those things are more valuable.

There's a reason why I've been saying for a long time that it's stupid for every resource to be on every map...

I could be wrong in this, because I've not been involved in making every making every map, or even a single PBEM map in the past year or so, but I think that a lot of the maps nowadays are definitely much scarcer in happy res.

I still belive as its now Cha its the weakest trait(did you seen how many people rejected it) and getting it cheap libraries will nor even put him in top 4 why then not gave cheap librarie and people to say about it its good i'll take it.

Eh, I can't say why the CHM leaders were rejected because that's spoiler info, but I can say that I'm not really concerned about that rejection in PB13. I'm not saying that this change shouldn't or couldn't happen though, just that I feel it needs some discussion, because I agree with you that there are certain areas where this new CHM could be pretty strong and want to make sure it wouldn't be OP on them.

[Bigger]

cyne, could you edit the newest version changelog into the first post, please?

[Hart]

cyne, could you edit the newest version changelog into the first post, please?

Pretty pleeeease. I see Krill's sig now says version 2.0.3.5, are there any major changes?

[Commodore]

Only difference from .4 to .5 is a bug fix for Persia.