Double-Fun - pitboss game (14)

[Caledorn]

What if I'm at peace, and you have a scouting chariot by my land. I double move a worker and a defending spear, so that I can get two turns on an improvement, and I guard it with the spear on the second turn, and I wouldn't have been able to do this sequentially without fearing that you'd snipe my worker.

Is there a consensus that this is a jerk play? (It's certainly moving a unit twice in a row to get an advantage.)

That's a double move. Basically, if you can see any unit that could affect your movements via a war declaration, you should play your turn, and not play the next one until the other player has played their turn.

ay. As the discussion above shows, "not being a jerk" as the only rule does not pass this test .

I think it does so long as players never do something that could be questionable, or at least ask lurker opinion first.

^^^^^^

This for both posts.

ay. As the discussion above shows, "not being a jerk" as the only rule does not pass this test .

I think it does so long as players never do something that could be questionable, or at least ask lurker opinion first.

As I said, I tried it myself, with very bad results .

I agree that we always need "do not be a jerk" as the last rule. But I think Plako is way too pessimistic in thinking that we will never read the rules if they are longer than one line - I have more trust in my co-players :big grin:.

So, calling all the players - and interested lurkers - please give me your opinion on double-moves and city-gifting. Player, no voicing any opinion will be interpreted as agreeing with whatever majority decides .

Double-moves: just like Krill and Qgqqqqq has suggested above.

City-gifting: not allowed under any circumstance.

Oh, and I'm speaking for Team Blame Caledorn here, and you can all blame me for it of course.

On a more personal note: I think you worry too much about everything that can go wrong, Maga. This is not a highly competitive game where everyone is going to be at each others throats, but a friendly "Let's learn how to play Civ4 BTS better together" game. Don't let your bad experiences with some players influence how you view all other players, as most players understand what "Don't be a jerk" involves. Since this game is played out on RB, we have lurkers who can tell us what moves are "hey, you just were a jerk!", and we are fortunate enough to have plako who can mediate any such situation. I don't think we will get many of them, but I'm really glad plako has agreed to be the admin for the game, as we know we have a highly experienced, trusted and longstanding member of RB who can give his opinion if a bad situation arises.

[Maga_R]

What if I'm at peace, and you have a scouting chariot by my land. I double move a worker and a defending spear, so that I can get two turns on an improvement, and I guard it with the spear on the second turn, and I wouldn't have been able to do this sequentially without fearing that you'd snipe my worker.

Is there a consensus that this is a jerk play? (It's certainly moving a unit twice in a row to get an advantage.)

That's a double move. Basically, if you can see any unit that could affect your movements via a war declaration, you should play your turn, and not play the next one until the other player has played their turn.

ay. As the discussion above shows, "not being a jerk" as the only rule does not pass this test .

I think it does so long as players never do something that could be questionable, or at least ask lurker opinion first.

^^^^^^

This for both posts.

ay. As the discussion above shows, "not being a jerk" as the only rule does not pass this test .

I think it does so long as players never do something that could be questionable, or at least ask lurker opinion first.

As I said, I tried it myself, with very bad results .

I agree that we always need "do not be a jerk" as the last rule. But I think Plako is way too pessimistic in thinking that we will never read the rules if they are longer than one line - I have more trust in my co-players :big grin:.

So, calling all the players - and interested lurkers - please give me your opinion on double-moves and city-gifting. Player, no voicing any opinion will be interpreted as agreeing with whatever majority decides .

Double-moves: just like Krill and Qgqqqqq has suggested above.

City-gifting: not allowed under any circumstance.

Oh, and I'm speaking for Team Blame Caledorn here, and you can all blame me for it of course.

On a more personal note: I think you worry too much about everything that can go wrong, Maga. This is not a highly competitive game where everyone is going to be at each others throats, but a friendly "Let's learn how to play Civ4 BTS better together" game. Don't let your bad experiences with some players influence how you view all other players, as most players understand what "Don't be a jerk" involves. Since this game is played out on RB, we have lurkers who can tell us what moves are "hey, you just were a jerk!", and we are fortunate enough to have plako who can mediate any such situation. I don't think we will get many of them, but I'm really glad plako has agreed to be the admin for the game, as we know we have a highly experienced, trusted and longstanding member of RB who can give his opinion if a bad situation arises.

(Blame) Caledorn, thank you for voicing your opinion on the settings.

On a personal note: Well, as I said I had a bad experience with playing a game with only "not be a her rule", that was interpreted differently by different player. True, we will have lurkers here to help, but I still do not see what is harm in specifying more what being a jerk means in civ terms? I am honestly not sure myself and I would like to know what other players think, currently I have rather vague idea .

And this is not about how I view other player - more about how I view *myself*. As I said, I have hard time figuring out what not being a jerk means in civ terms - and in spite of good intentions, sometimes guessed wrong, in many cases I still do not know who was right. I still believe it is much better to have these discussions now - while we are still rather calm and reasonable . And have nothing else to do .

[Halvgud]

I do declare my intention to join this here delectable gathering of foes and friends in a fun, friendly, learning experience with the best gang of cut-throat, ruthless, manipulative bastards that have ever walked the earth.

Suggesting Team "My Little Marathon Cannibal Pony" to be formally accepted.

Applying as: Inexperienced.

Bonus: I love diplomacy, and if there is a good player that don't much like the diplo part, I'm happy to shoulder the entire Diplo part of the game.

[YossarianLives]

Awesome, welcome aboard Halvgud! We do have a couple players still looking for teams, maybe you can reach out to them by pm to see about joining up.

[Maga_R]

I do declare my intention to join this here delectable gathering of foes and friends in a fun, friendly, learning experience with the best gang of cut-throat, ruthless, manipulative bastards that have ever walked the earth.

Suggesting Team "My Little Marathon Cannibal Pony" to be formally accepted.

Applying as: Inexperienced.

Bonus: I love diplomacy, and if there is a good player that don't much like the diplo part, I'm happy to shoulder the entire Diplo part of the game.

Wow, Halvgud, you are most cordially welcome! First true RBian signing up! This thread was created for people like you - perhaps more would follow .

You can start your own [SPOILERS] thread in Pitboss 14 forum. Signup is open until August 8th, then snake pick of leaders and civ would start.

[WilliamLP]

What if I'm at peace, and you have a scouting chariot by my land. I double move a worker and a defending spear, so that I can get two turns on an improvement, and I guard it with the spear on the second turn, and I wouldn't have been able to do this sequentially without fearing that you'd snipe my worker.

Is there a consensus that this is a jerk play? (It's certainly moving a unit twice in a row to get an advantage.)

That's a double move. Basically, if you can see any unit that could affect your movements via a war declaration, you should play your turn, and not play the next one until the other player has played their turn.

How about if I move a military unit onto a hill to see your city tile, but then I move it away at the beginning of the next turn, because I don't want you to know I scouted you? It's a double move by the criteria of moving twice to get an advantage (in denying knowledge), not something that could be affected by a war declaration.

(I'm really just being academic and curious here - I wouldn't really care much since it's so easy to make moves like this, with some theoretical advantage, just inadvertently.)

[Maga_R]

Teams update:

1. Orgynized Team "We will eat you heart while its still beating and we are just lying to you to keep you calm before we attack you" or OTWWEYHWISBAWAJLTYTKYCBWAY also known as OT (Lord Parkin / Arkipeller / Magno_uy)
2. Team Blame Caledorn (YossarianLives / Caledorn (with Scooter and Old Harry dedlurking)
3. [Waiting for teammate's approval to post the name] Slaze / Maga_R (with Jovan Kukic dedlurking)
4. Team Care Bears (Yuufo / Bisons)
5. Classical_Hero/? looking for a teammate
6. Bowsling/Aivoturso
7. Dick76 looking for a teammate
8. Team My Little Marathon Cannibal Pony ?/Halvgud looking for a teammate

Sign up deadline: 8/8/13

[Lord Parkin]

Basically, if you can see any unit that could affect your movements via a war declaration, you should play your turn, and not play the next one until the other player has played their turn.

..."not being a jerk" as the only rule does not pass this test .

I think it does so long as players never do something that could be questionable, or at least ask lurker opinion first.

Double-moves: just like Krill and Qgqqqqq has suggested above.

Fine with me. I think Krill's point covers pretty much everything except Settler races. In the rare situations where they occur, I still think "no double moving" is a fair rule from the point where one player spots the other.

City-gifting: not allowed under any circumstance.

Also fine with me. I honestly don't recall a pitboss game I've been in where city gifting took place for any reason other than to exploit game mechanics.

EDIT: Actually I do recall one... it was late in the game and one player's border city was being culture-choked by their ally, so they agreed it would be better to gift it to the more cultured civ and have it work better tiles. Declaring war would have ruined trade route income - not to mention destroyed buildings, killed pop, and caused resistance. It was only a matter of time before it flipped anyway. Personally I don't see much issue with that, but it's also not a common circumstance.

I do declare my intention to join this here delectable gathering of foes and friends in a fun, friendly, learning experience with the best gang of cut-throat, ruthless, manipulative bastards that have ever walked the earth.

Suggesting Team "My Little Marathon Cannibal Pony" to be formally accepted.

Applying as: Inexperienced.

Bonus: I love diplomacy, and if there is a good player that don't much like the diplo part, I'm happy to shoulder the entire Diplo part of the game.

Welcome to RB, Halvgud!

[Maga_R]

What if I'm at peace, and you have a scouting chariot by my land. I double move a worker and a defending spear, so that I can get two turns on an improvement, and I guard it with the spear on the second turn, and I wouldn't have been able to do this sequentially without fearing that you'd snipe my worker.

Is there a consensus that this is a jerk play? (It's certainly moving a unit twice in a row to get an advantage.)

That's a double move. Basically, if you can see any unit that could affect your movements via a war declaration, you should play your turn, and not play the next one until the other player has played their turn.

How about if I move a military unit onto a hill to see your city tile, but then I move it away at the beginning of the next turn, because I don't want you to know I scouted you? It's a double move by the criteria of moving twice to get an advantage (in denying knowledge), not something that could be affected by a war declaration.

(I'm really just being academic and curious here - I wouldn't really care much since it's so easy to make moves like this, with some theoretical advantage, just inadvertently.)

I said from player point of view, it is easier to try to adhere to a honor code like this. i agree the less it matters the less worth enforcing it is, that is why I initially proposed only rules against double moves during war and turn before it, including simply not logging in out of turn - then everybody knows that no double-moves occured and can, as Dick76 so well said, "fight peacefully" .

[Old Harry]

I think the "rules are the problem" posts are missing the point that some of the players in this game won't have read the pitboss 7 threads and so won't know when they are breaking rules and being a jerk. A short list of rules with a double-sized "Don't be a jerk" at the bottom and Plako and other experienced lurkers (Krill, Noble, etc) as the police should do the trick nicely.

Changing the subject totally. Does Novice's Observer Mode work with Pitboss? Do you think the players in this game would like to be televised? It might help lurkers track anyone who struggles with reporting.
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=5868