[NO PLAYERS] The Kibitzer Klub: PB13 Map & Lurkers

[Mardoc]

Why do people keep talking about Communism's great spy - didn't Commodore already get it a couple turns back?

I think their preconceptions are blinding them. Mack and Scooter didn't get it, therefore no one got it, cause everyone knows only those two have good tech rates IF they notice Commodore got a Great Spy, they probably assume he ran a spy specialist.

Although that said, it's something that pretty much doesn't matter to the people talking. Whether Mack or Commodore gets it, they still don't have a chance at the first-to bonus themselves.

[pindicator]

Hey I don't entirely blame them. Scooter and I were convinced top GNP was mackoti through sheer devilry. It wasn't until I dropped out that I learned it was Commodore

[Krill]

The more I think about this game, the more I've realised that there is still all the play for. mackoti has noted that he can't win the tech race anymore, but with selective use of research/wealth builds he will be able to keep up with the front runners and his MFG is just absurd given the context of no SP. scooter has actually made a couple of strategic errors (as Pindicator has noted, and I agree with him). scooter can't take over all of Bigger right now, but he does have a window just as Commodore gets Kremlin done to attack Lewger that might lead him to get knobbled by Commodore. Commodore is sitting preety on his billion towns with Feitoria in all his cities and has the best tech rate of anyone, but he is refusing to be first researcher and instead is going to rush buy everything he needs. Commodore has basically removed the tech race from the game, because he can win any first-to bonus that he wants, but is trying to slow it down. And then there is Plako just lurking around the edges with a couple of people to go and eat. Then you have the whole dtay/FinHarry/Ichabod triangle, with WLP the potential prize for Commodore running in with rush bought units from his islands.

There are so many players in the game, and none of them are in a front runner position yet. I don't think it's possible to call it yet, we might be here for another month or so and actually get to see tanks used in a real game.

[Bobchillingworth]

There are so many players in the game, and none of them are in a front runner position yet. I don't think it's possible to call it yet, we might be here for another month or so and actually get to see tanks used in a real game.

Sometimes I get the impression that RB prefers to forget that PB1 existed, perhaps because the winning civ was the paradigm-challenging Aggressive Rome

[SevenSpirits]

Sometimes I get the impression that RB prefers to forget that PB1 existed, perhaps because the winning civ was the paradigm-challenging Aggressive Rome

Well it's not meaningful for most of what we do. It was played with tech trading on (and diplo). And everyone sucked (relatively speaking) back then.

[Ceiliazul]

The more I think about this game, the more I've realised that there is still all the play for.

That will change once Lewwyn cranks up the power. Scooter will get eaten just enough, even if Commodore abstains, to cause Scooter to vote for concession to Mack. And no one will disagree. I hope you're right krill, but I think this is more likely.

[Krill]

Tech trading is the great leveller. Diplomacy helps as well, if only to fuck over the perceived better players. In the context of what I think we consider a "real" game, I think that PBEM1, PBEM2, and PB1 aren't really comparable to the other game's we've played.

[Krill]

Sometimes I get the impression that RB prefers to forget that PB1 existed, perhaps because the winning civ was the paradigm-challenging Aggressive Rome

Well it's not meaningful for most of what we do. It was played with tech trading on (and diplo). And everyone sucked (relatively speaking) back then.

I was gonna say this. The skill level between then and now isn't even fair. One of my hopes for the future is that we can replay PB1, without TT and diplo, and maybe we can retest that.

(FWIW, I think the me then would maybe just about fit into an intermediates game now. Maybe).

[Krill]

The more I think about this game, the more I've realised that there is still all the play for.

That will change once Lewwyn cranks up the power. Scooter will get eaten just enough, even if Commodore abstains, to cause Scooter to vote for concession to Mack. And no one will disagree. I hope you're right krill, but I think this is more likely.

If the players want to end the game for whatever reason, that's fair IMO. But even if they "voted" for a concession, I think that it would be accepted that it really is more of a draw.

That said, I do hope it carries on. I don't think any of the front runner groups has actually stated that there is a single player that is in the lead, so I think they might not actually vote for a concession? Obviously, that doesn't mean they won't choose to end it.

[Bobchillingworth]

Sometimes I get the impression that RB prefers to forget that PB1 existed, perhaps because the winning civ was the paradigm-challenging Aggressive Rome

Well it's not meaningful for most of what we do. It was played with tech trading on (and diplo). And everyone sucked (relatively speaking) back then.

I was gonna say this. The skill level between then and now isn't even fair. One of my hopes for the future is that we can replay PB1, without TT and diplo, and maybe we can retest that.

(FWIW, I think the me then would maybe just about fit into an intermediates game now. Maybe).

I admit that allowing both tech trading and diplomacy make PB1 significantly different from current games (I had forgotten it had tech trading enabled). I disagree however that there exists a massive gulf in skill between that game and contemporary matches. Although it has been years since I lurked it, I do not recall the overall field in PB1 being significantly worse than, say, PB16. The tactics which secured victory for Rome were actually quite brilliant. Certainly the players were different, with several people who have since disappeared and having started before most of the current vets joined RB, but it wasn't exactly people banging rocks together.