[NO PLAYERS] The Kibitzer Klub: PB13 Map & Lurkers

[MindyMcCready]

There is so much good stuff happening in PB13 right now. :LOL:

[Krill]

That city gift is ridiculous and it's shameful that two separate players in the game accepted the deal. I mean, how can you get any more cheesy than gifting away a city that's about to be captured by someone else? If I were in the game I'd demand a reload.

Contrast that to Pindicator moving units out of a city and gifting it to novice in PB15 due to turn order...

[darrelljs]

That city gift is ridiculous and it's shameful that two separate players in the game accepted the deal. I mean, how can you get any more cheesy than gifting away a city that's about to be captured by someone else? If I were in the game I'd demand a reload.

Yeah...that's pretty much where I draw the line. I'll whip and pillage as much of my land as I want to deny my opponent the spoils of my labor, but I wouldn't gift or accept the gift of a city . Mind you, I have no idea why that's where I draw the line.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Contrast that to Pindicator moving units out of a city and gifting it to novice in PB15 due to turn order...

I'd need more context, but that's something that I might or might not do. If say novice had done all the heavy lifting in a war against me, and some cheese monger tried to steal some of the spoils I might very well do this.

Darrell

[Krill]

Other way around. I did the heavy lifting, novice ran in afterwards. Although it was a very complex situation involving a peace treaty and an artist bomb.

[pindicator]

That city gift is ridiculous and it's shameful that two separate players in the game accepted the deal. I mean, how can you get any more cheesy than gifting away a city that's about to be captured by someone else? If I were in the game I'd demand a reload.

Contrast that to Pindicator moving units out of a city and gifting it to novice in PB15 due to turn order...

Yikes, I remember doing a last throw off my units against you but I don't recall having any intention to spite you out of the city. Honestly an oversight from a checked out player in that instance

[SevenSpirits]

Yeah...that's pretty much where I draw the line. I'll whip and pillage as much of my land as I want to deny my opponent the spoils of my labor, but I wouldn't gift or accept the gift of a city . Mind you, I have no idea why that's where I draw the line.

Darrell

Probably because we have a rule (vague though it may be) about one but not about the other.

[Ceiliazul]

i wish you guys had chimed in before the gift went through. oh well, i do think it will help Scopter in the long run, but still a bad play imo.

[Krill]

That city gift is ridiculous and it's shameful that two separate players in the game accepted the deal. I mean, how can you get any more cheesy than gifting away a city that's about to be captured by someone else? If I were in the game I'd demand a reload.

Contrast that to Pindicator moving units out of a city and gifting it to novice in PB15 due to turn order...

Yikes, I remember doing a last throw off my units against you but I don't recall having any intention to spite you out of the city. Honestly an oversight from a checked out player in that instance

Yeah, it annoyed me at the time but I kinda saw the reasoning. Realistically it wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't agreed to peace with novice. As it was I'm simply glad that game finished because it would have run into all these problems in the next 30 turns if it didn't end.

[Bobchillingworth]

I do not understand at all why pillaging your own improvements is bad, but turning them all into workshops is legit, and deleting your own workers is bad, but deleting defenders is okay if they have odds below an unspecified threshold, and whipping cities down to size 1 is spite, but whipping all of your cities to produce units which you later delete because they can't win and you don't want to feed your opponent XP is cool. All of these informal "rules" of defender conduct, which were heretofore unknown to me, are completely arbitrary and transparently dependent on who you are rooting for in a particular game.


Perhaps this is the FFH talking, where nobody whips their cities down to nothing and you can't earn GG points, but I have never cared about what defending players do as long as they A: defend (even if this means simply whipping units and ending turn) and B: don't gift away threatened cities. I completely agree with whoever posted that the aggressor is being a jerk by virtue of attacking. Don't tell me that this is just a game- people get attached to their civs, and when you invade somebody you're stomping on their sandcastle. As a defender, I owe the person trying to wreck the empire I've invested many hours building absolutely nothing. I'll pillage & whip whatever I want, if I want, and fuck you if you think you're entitled to capture large cities and mature towns.


Not to mention that the mentality of many RB vets rewards defenders acting like dicks. Commodore has floated through the pitboss on the back of a reputation as an easily provoked psychopath who will ruin the game of anyone who messes with him, out of sheer spite. But apparently now it's illegitimate for newer RB players to try to establish similar reps? Complete bullshit. This argument:

What does it gain you, a few XP in your RB metagame reputation? "Don't fight Bacchus, he pillages everything, not worth attacking!" FALSE. Now I know to just kill you all at once if we ever fight a war. Or attack you in sufficient force to initiate your self-destruct sequence, then withdraw and watch you pillage all of your own tiles. Or whatever.

Is disingenuous nonsense. Your response to someone making conquest less attractive is to conquer them harder ? What the heck were you doing in the first place, intentionally half-assing things out of a sense of martial nobility? If pillaging my own tiles causes you to withdraw, then it was a good defense. It's not particularly hard to rebuild farms and workshops, which are apparently totally okay to replace towns with.


Personally I think a much more serious issue is when players abandon all of their outlying cities, essentially gifting them (along with their improvements and pop) to their attacker, and retreat all of their units into their capitals to await death. But I guess that's cool with the hand-wringing Miss Manners crowd, as long as the lurkers get a big battle at the end and the attacker has to bring a lot of units for it.



Kind of sad that the RB community is beginning to Balkanize, but I guess self-indulgent invitational games are the wave of the future if you're such a prima donna that you aren't willing to play with someone because they're too frustrating to conquer.