[SPOILERS] By the Rivers of Babylon, FIN has no effect (on krovice)

[Krill]

I've just ran through the sim quickly. I don't really have anything to say about micro. I do think that those units up north may be overkill (or at least if we need them, they wouldn't be enough anyway) so maybe 1 bowman to move south is worthwhile, and keep the rest up there. I think that not getting the warrior in the copper city is better, and just dump the hammers into the granary, overflowing the spare hammers into a work boat. I know you said that the work boat is not needed until size 4, however it may make it possible to use less workers at the copper city. That would mean using the spare worker to start roading to the ivory city, which shouldn't need units other than spawn busters, or even roading to the west to claim a front city in that direction.

[zakalwe]

A couple of classic malapropisms that will fit in 15 letters:
- Just desserts
- Wrecking havoc

[novice]

Turn 40




If you think we're good for units up north the warrior that's now checking out our northeast can go defend the copper city next. That could let us skip the warrior chop there. We'll see how it shakes out. Dtay seems to have a 4k power increase on his power graph (which I think is 2 turns delayed), so it's too early to tell, really.

EDIT: Also meant to mention that dtay has at least 7 (and possibly 8) pop points, according to the victory conditions screen.

[Krill]

Cities on hills behind 20% city defence = 1 spear and 1 bowman is enough IMO. He will not axe rush so long as we don't appear to be overly aggressive. Ensure that there is enough pop to get a spear out to defend DS whilst the current units move over the the new city and we're solid.

[novice]

Chat with Krill about the game:

novice - 20:23
I think our pb18 situation looks pretty great long term
But I'm still worried about dtay

Krill - 20:24
Dtay is the main concern
I agree
But get those two front cities and then just play passive against him

novice - 20:24
yeah if we can pull that off we should be good

Krill - 20:24
we only need to make sure we get the other front city up quicly and then cram units into them
Which is why I think we want to rush out to 4 cities and then build military
bowman just make an axeman rush a waste of time compared to Whoseit
*Whosit

novice - 20:25
Yeah
Of course dtay may not border whosit

Krill - 20:26
That would be a rather naff map if he is up there alone

novice - 20:26
Not sure what naff means but this map is probably pretty nonstandard

Krill - 20:26
naff basically means bad in this instance

novice - 20:27
I have no idea what Commodore meant by giving cramped and non-cramped starts

Krill - 20:27
I don't try to consider anything he said after the map dimensions were confirmed
not worth the time

novice - 20:28
Anyway the map layout is sort of nudging us into building widely spaced powerhouse cities
Which means that we need happiness asap
or maybe it's CRE and non-exp, non-imp that's nudging us into that

Krill - 20:29
well
both
really
rush calendar
and fit in military techs as needed

novice - 20:31
If the map is fair we ought to have a metal happiness somewhere, maybe in our northeast. But Calendar would be good, yeah
Monarchy is less beakers though

Krill - 20:31
if there is metal happiness simply build a settler and grab it
not much more to say about it than that
Not sure
Don't even have Myst
I think Monarchy is maybe 200 beakers cheaper
but needs a revolt turn
and improves 1 tile and is worth 2 happy in most cities
Calendar is worth 3 happy
and much better tile yields
and better first tech

novice - 20:34
Yeah you've convinced me

Krill - 20:34
I am not sure about sugar though
that needs IW
but then
grow on first two happy and go IW after
get the third happy in time

novice - 20:35
A metal happy would be a lifesaver, waiting for calendar with just ivory might be painful
yeah

Krill - 20:35
yeah
that's why I'm concerned about the beakers

novice - 20:36
We can cottage the capital and the northern city can work lakes
plus the seafood

Krill - 20:36
Honestly think we want Calendar by T80
because of timeline needed for HA for defence

novice - 20:37
I doubt we can get it by T80

Krill - 20:37
I think we need to consider bpt
and appropriate tech paths
rather than just choosing a tech

novice - 20:38
agreed, we should do some calculations
after archery and pottery

Krill - 20:39
Yeah
even though we have to get AH afterwards

novice - 20:39
oh yeah, forgot about that momentarily
we could of course sneak in HBR in our Calendar beeline

Krill - 20:40
yeah
might want to consider long term binary science and an Academy

novice - 20:42
interesting idea, that could make sense depending on what our calculations show
We'll probably need at least 17 turns of gold generation anyway

Krill - 20:43
yeah
FWIW that is what i did in 15 to get to calendar

novice - 20:44
Let's emulate that and skip the medieval world wars then

Krill - 20:45
works for me

[Krill]

Basic idea behind long term binary is basically research Writing and save gold for the 20 odd turns of building a library and getting the GS, then blitz through a bunch of tech once the Academy is in place.

[mackoti]

Basic idea behind long term binary is basically research Writing and save gold for the 20 odd turns of building a library and getting the GS, then blitz through a bunch of tech once the Academy is in place.

i use this but i find sometimes is inefecient beacue this time you grow and build more cities which will consume more gold, and a tech lik e math for example worth very much if have some forests.

[Krill]

Very true. But we're basically having to use the forests right now just to keep up with dtay, otherwise we run the risk of dying to a HA rush or getting penned back. He had this third city before we even got our second. It's a simple cost benefit analysis, but basic tech path is likely to be something like Archery>Pottery>AH>Writing anyway, with no forests remaining at cities 1 through 4, and Writing not completed until T63-ish. At that point even if wanting to go Maths next we would want to save gold whilst building the Lib, and we would certainly be up to at least 6 cities/setters if not attacked by someone.

Simply waiting for the Academy means that we're going to get a slightly better beaker modifier with a bunch of cities compared to researching immediately. Probably nothing amazing but the main consideration that will decide tech path is what turn we need to have HBR by to deal with a potential HA attack from dtay.

[Krill]

Dot mapping around that grass cow/wheat area is hard.

[novice]

Some tech costs:

Code:

Writing      207
HBR          430
Mysticism     85
Meditation   138
Priesthood   103
Monarchy     517
Mathematics  430
Calendar     603
Sailing      172
Iron working 345

Monarchy beeline:

Code:

Mysticism     85
Meditation   138
Priesthood   103
Monarchy     517
Total:       843

Calendar beeline:

Code:

Writing      207
Sailing      172
Mathematics  430
Calendar     603
Total:      1412