[SPOILERS] Zanth and Bacchus conquer the Amber Gugohn

[Bacchus]

China would have been one of the top picks to consider here, AH first tech and BW second work fairly well for Imperialistic. Current top picks are Ottomen and Sumeria and we are guaranteed to get on or the other. Maybe Zulu is AH first? Current impi is basically just a spear, Ikhanda would save us some gold though, good old rounding down.

[Bacchus]

Played around with the Ottoman start, looks good -- 3 Settlers, 2 Workers, 2 Warriors and a Granary in the capital by T50. Three forests chopped. Lack of a commerce resource hurts a bit. The cow, two grass hills mined and the rice let us put 20 hammers into a Settler every turn, completes just in 5 with no overflow or whipping Of course, 6->4 whip nets 90 hammers, so building them in batches of 2 seems the thing to do.

We'd need to try for Oracle for Monarchy, I wonder whether we can pull it off. Micro-challenge!

[Bacchus]

Or rather the 5->3 whip timed for immediate regrowth to 4.

[Bacchus]

Cathy was the only alternative to Victoria I was considering for this start after Hannibal got picked, paired with China she is one of the stronger possible picks in this set-up. If Suttree has a start comparable to ours, making the most out of IMP, he will be scary. Hopefully we aren't neighbours.

DeGaulle of Vikings is a pretty focused GLH play, in other circumstances I would have even suspected people having inside information on the map for having picked it, as this runs a considerable chance of falling flat on its face. Hopefully, we are neighbours.

Washington of Inca... Eh, ugh, ok. The problem with Inca for me is that they are so counter-synergistic, if you get Mysticism, your microplan is hardly going to focus around an early Granary, surely. I guess Terraces are still double speed with Exp, so maybe not so bad. Washington is fine.

Random of Random turning up Sury of America is round about the expected level of quality. If the start is a seafood one, it's even not bad. Agri guarantees the ability to research AH, Cre is still a top trait, whilst Exp is likely not that much worse than others.

[Bacchus]

Microplan for Oracle, delaying BW.

We get the wonder EOT56 (if we put a chop in, EOT57 otherwise), whereas BW comes in EOT54. This lets us revolt into HR and Slavery together over T57, start the third settler Settler on T58, whip him on T59 for movement on T60. My biggest problem with this plan is that currently both Workers are pretty much doing nothing turns 40-54, OTOH in the real game they would be needed to build improvements in cities 2 and 3, so maybe that's just as well. Another bone to pick with this is that we get Pottery early, but the only cottage that we work is the flood plains one — again, this might well be made up by building cottages in the newer cities during the currently idle turns.

Will play around with a BW after Pottery plan tomorrow.

[Bacchus]

Oh yeah, another problem with the above is that we have copper in the capital, which seems to be a trend with mapmakers lately, delaying BW so much forgoes quite a lot of (food)hammers. However, we need to get AH first, so we get to see whether we have horses. If we do have them, I wouldn't count on ALSO having copper, so would be more tempted to go with the above plan (appropriately adjusted for the new tile).

[zanth]

^ agree on this: Firstly AH then there would be choices based on whether we have horses or not
and if there's only one Ind leader, maybe we could obtain Oracle w/o skipping BW

[zanth]

It's time for a brief review:
retep - Washington (Cha/Exp) of the Inca (AGR/MYST, Quecha/Terrace)
Well, if anyone would go to Oracle w/o Pottery, it would be retep. His choice is quite reasonable, though it seems he doesn't have anything especial to be a great threat at early- or mid-game

suttree - Catherine (Cre/Imp) of China (AGR/MIN, Cho-Ku-Nu/Pavilion)
Agree w/ Bachus. Great choice, maybe best in vacuum at this mode.

Azza - Suryavarman (Cre/Exp) of America (AGR/FISH, Navy SEAL/Frontier Post)
W/ WB available at once, it doesn't seem to be the best choice...

GermanJoJo/Lord Parkin - De Gaulle (Cha/Ind) De Scandinavia (FISH/HUNT, Berserker/Trading Post)
Well, it seems rush to GLH.

Barteq - Hannibal (Cha/Fin) of the Zulu (AGR/HUNT, Impi/Ikhanda)
Rather fearsome combo for early game. He could maintain enormous fast expansion, hope we're rather far from each other.

Gavagai - Gandhi (Phi/Spi) of Rome (FISH/MIN, Praetorian/Forum)
Quite fearsome combo too. Let's hope he would recieve some early wars.

Gawdzak/BaII - Zara Yaqob (Cre/Org) of Byzantium (MYST/WHE, Cataphract/Hippodrome)
Intresting choice, he would be able to expand rather quick in mid-game. Hope he would have some strong neighbors.

So, Barteq, sutree, Gav are bad neighbours, Azza, Gawdzak/BaII, retep -- are good ones. As for GermanJoJo it depends on type of border: good for land one and bad for sea-one.

[zanth]

pass: monolith

[zanth]

demo after Parkin and Sutree made their moves

so, where to move scout and where should we settle at once or firstly move scout