[SPOILERS] By the Rivers of Babylon, FIN has no effect (on krovice)

[novice]

Aren't we chopping the third ring spice into mids?

[Krill]

Could do. If so worker mm becomes more strict but still doable. Will have some inefficiencies but need to accept them to make sure we have quick cities by ruff.

[Krill]

Report later, just looked at turn, yet to play:

Maths due in 3 @80%, so it is well in hand and we will have gold left at the end.

Barb warrior on the south island, we can easily handle it with the units we are sending

I need to look at the MM again, but I think Mids eot T97 is still possible, but the cost of speeding it up from T98 is immense. T97 needs 3 pop whip and the spice chop, T98 needs either 2 pop whip or 1 pop whip and spice chop...I am not 100% sure that we should do it, because we would have to use 6 workers for a T97 Mids, but can get away with 5 for a T97 Mids. And that spare worker enables us to settle the southern city against Ruff on T97 due to roads.

I'll play the turn after the Dignitas - TSM game. SO start anywhere between 20 and 40 minutes from now.

[novice]

I think it's fine to have a reasonably quick and efficient mids plan that doesn't derail everything else, i.e. Mids eot98 is fine.

[Krill]

OK, I'll update the in-game MM when I play the turn. There will be some inefficiencies...mostly because I fucked up last turn, there was 1 worker turn unaccounted for on the grassland south of Ec, but whatever.

[Krill]

Rechecked MM. It's not good. I can get Mids T98; can't get it T97. T98 requires triple whip and all 6 chops; worker MM is trivial. Problem is that taking into account all 6 chops, eot T97 we get Mids to 459, and I think whips into Mids are worth half base hammers, right? So first pop is 15 base, second etc are worth 10? That means double whip is worth (15+10)*1.5=37 therefore 4 hammers short for double whip. T99 Mids would require delaying 2 chops to T98, which is trivial, and would then only require a 1 pop whip.

So, basically take everything I said in my previous post and delay it a turn. Fortunately, none of the MM actually changes until T97 so there is plenty of thime to think this over.

[Krill]

Game mechanics question for lurkers, assuming base BtS. How many hammers do you get per pop point whipped into a wonder? I know it varies by wonder, but what are the real, in game, values?

[novice]

We're at turn 90? Can't we chop two forests with 1 worker, get the spice as well, and 2-whip at t98?

[Krill]

Can chop all 6 available forests by T97 easily, plus the 7th spice forest. Just don't have enough hammers in Mids to 2 whip it. Need to make 41 hammers on T98 with the whip. That takes 3 pop. There are no more forests that chop into FR that we can reach (galleys will not make it in time so don't even think of that option).

EDIT: If final 2 chops delayed until T98, then need only 17 hammers to finish Mids...which means we don't even have to slave it to finish it T99.

[novice]

I suggest we 3-whip on t98 then.