[NO PLAYERS] The Kibitzer Klub: PB13 Map & Lurkers

[Fintourist]

Nakor asked politely for people to lay off AFTER large amount of criticism had been stated already. And then immediately after someone jumped on him. The Realms Beyond I want to be a part of respects someone asking specifically for people to lay off them. Period.

agreed with everything in that post, especially the quoted part.

1. I guess the key difference here is that having spent so many hours with this game I'm feeling stronger about this issue than you guys.

2. Gaspar talks about varying player skill in his post, which I think is a wrong subject here. This is all about having a decency to play (good or bad) the game that you joined until the end and not screwing the game for all your fellow players.

3. To put things in perspective: There were several players that spent a year with this game and e.g. WilliamLP (after the bloody start) probably played most of it without having too high hopes of winning the whole thing. Just to state (even politely) that "I got sick of this game, leave me alone" is not a real apology, which from my subjective perspective would be appropriate after showing the middle finger to all the other players and leaving. It's hard to just "lay off" when someone hits you in the face and says "stop whining" instead of "sorry".

[Ceiliazul]

It would be a great disappointment if, after all the time and energy you players invested here, all you could talk about is Nakor.

Some great storylines from this game:

-Commodore's worst t2 map ever and early rush
-Suttree's opening oddities
-Lewwyn's initial dominance and then slow decline
-The thousand years' war between Greece, Inca and Khmer
-Bacchus' raiding the Viking raiders. (lol) And the logic therein (whaaa?)
-WilliamLP unending drive for victory, and being 3-5t late at every tack
- Battle of the Game 1: Mackoti v FinTourist
- Battle of the Game 2: Lewwyn's last charge
- Team badass.
- Tech bonus feedback
- Dtay's collapse
- 'AI diplo' shenanigans
- So Close to a victory condition!

Seriously, this was a fantastic performance by many players. It would be your loss if this thread focuses on the few who left early.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Great post, Ceil.

[dtay]

Dtay's collapse

Most enjoyable collapse ever. Felt like building up a giant sandcastle then reveling in watching the waves slowly tear it to pieces. I've read the later parts of commodore's thread, I'm pretty curious how efficiently he could have made headway on the continent. I'm reasonably happy I never let either Finharry or Commodore hold a mainland city of mine (not that it was hard given the set up), but I imagine tanks and bombers would rapidly change that...

I think the real problem was going to be the bombers. Anti-tanks and collateral would let me fight off tanks, but not if all my units were perennially at less than half-health.

[Jowy]

Nakor asked politely for people to lay off AFTER large amount of criticism had been stated already. And then immediately after someone jumped on him. The Realms Beyond I want to be a part of respects someone asking specifically for people to lay off them. Period.

[The Black Sword]

GG and congrats to all the survivors! Your threads were all very enjoyable reads after we were eliminated.

And yeah, I agree, suttree defended well and I respect him for that. What I keep repeating is the question: Was our razing of his size 1 city that much different from plako razing Dhal city/cities and dtay razing TBS/Jowy city/cities that we should have known that suttree goes immediately into full military mode? I mean TBS and Dhal tried to recover economically even though I think TBS was in an extremely hopeless situation (after that fight, which was also reported in the lurker thread). Obviously angering a neighbor is always a risk and this time it cost us, but does anyone have a clear opinion why it lead here into full military build-up while in aforementioned other cases military levels were kept lower?

I found it very amusing that despite our different approaches, the Spanish and Indian civilisations fell on the exact same turn.

Hurting dtay was always the goal in the back of my mind to be fair, I just felt building up the civ was the best way of doing it. Were it not for some bad mistakes(not reacting fast enough, slavery revolt, Jetboy battle) near the end I think we would have been harder to swallow and that decision would have been correct. I suppose a big difference is the relatively isolated nature of my conflict with dtay and Dhal's with plako. If I had built up an army earlier, that would have presumably slowed our growth and make us easier to take later. Unlike with suttree, there was little chance of someone coming in to steal dtay's prize after he did the work of dealing with that buildup. Additionally I doubt an earlier build up would have taken up enough of dtay's resources to significantly alter his game path. He just didn't have many other opportunities to take land, like you might have with MH, and he seemed to have taken his first-to boni with a fairly comfortable cushion.

[Fintourist]

It would be a great disappointment if, after all the time and energy you players invested here, all you could talk about is Nakor.

Fair enough, I guess everything is said and I'll just suck it from now on. Just for record, remember that I only represent my own views, Old Harry is the one of us that is always nice (apart from in-game actions)!

-The thousand years' war between Greece, Inca and Khmer

Short recap anyone? Retep was squeezed, Ichabod pink-dotted WilliamLP, what else?

- Battle of the Game 2: Lewwyn's last charge

This was a very nice show, but probably keeping the troops inside own borders would have made the job harder for Vikings?

- Team badass.

I don't know about OH (who deserves the most of credit for the last 100 turns), but at least I embrace this nickname Is this coming from our war buddy, Commodore, or where?

- 'AI diplo' shenanigans

They are kind of fun, but I'm happy that PB18 has banned the usage of numbers to signal turn numbers. The most important point of AI diplo is avoiding NAPs..

[Fintourist]

If I had built up an army earlier, that would have presumably slowed our growth and make us easier to take later.

Yeah, after that one battle of course the death was inevitable as long as dtay keeps playing well and nobody else interferes (that somebody should have been us, but we had our hands full with suttree and mack)

Additionally I doubt an earlier build up would have taken up enough of dtay's resources to significantly alter his game path. He just didn't have many other opportunities to take land, like you might have with MH, and he seemed to have taken his first-to boni with a fairly comfortable cushion.

Building let's say 30 extra units during the turns 100-130 would of course have been a setback for dtay, but you are right, that probably would not have cost him Liberalism. In our situation the opportunity cost was perhaps bigger, because getting a chance to compete for m_h lands or reaching e.g. guilds earlier would have improved our position. (I'm not claiming that being able to maintain lower military levels at the suttree front would have changed our whole game, but obviously those resources could have achieved something).

[Old Harry]

Whew, just finished this thread and I can't remember 90% of the stuff I was planning to comment on .

Except: the name-calling Bacchus suffered for doing something that plenty of players do was uncalled for, especially when he was trying to have a rational discussion about it all. I expected better from several people.

And more importantly:

Ha, I had forgotten about the avatar bet after a year. I think we'd have to call it a no result since the game wasn't conceded to Mackoti and he isn't being proclaimed the "winner".

Agreed.

Not a chance you two! You both lost so let's hear what your punishment for the other guy is going to be!

Right. Commodore's thread next .

[NobleHelium]

-Commodore's worst t2 map ever and early rush

What is t2?