Quick report on t169 as I was very tired/headachey when playing last night and Noble already gave the big news, which is that Commodore brought the serious invasion to dtay's capital and TBS took Oxy's.
The only major news for us was that we razed Oxy's last island holding, Tan.
The game, trolling us as always, finally gives the full set of Granary, Lighthouse, Courthouse for the city we were only ever going to raze. Hell is not only other people, but RNGesus as well.
Beyond that, we positioned ourselves to pick potential scraps off the corpses of Oxy and dtay but nothing fully committed, really. There are some legitimate reasons to fear TBS continuing to go west but I think he's mostly going to just enjoying winning until the rest of us rise up to tell him he's won officially, which won't happen until someone raises it in the tech thread. For the moment, I'm still amused enough by the stuff in front of me to keep playing turns but that won't last much longer.
Picking up the empire tour...
(Apologies for lack of resource bubbles, as I said, quite tired last night.)
Lyonesse, nee Ike was our first conquest of the game. It was settled way too close to both Elysian Fields and Nysa and was always going to be the focal point of an attack. There's not a lot going on here as it has now managed to get the lion's share of its buildering done and will just trickle out units and/or help out with wealth builds.
Shambhala, the former Captain Falcon was a necessary addition to set the new border. It probably isn't going to win culture battles against Commodore's city's first ring, so what you see is what you get.
Baltia was the first of the Oxy conquests, a city that isn't much more than a fishing village. It does link the mainland with the Niflheim and Lake Cocytus though.
The long time object of my desire, Mount Olympus isn't quite as great as it could be, given the number of cities around it sharing all the food, but it is still pretty great. We're going to get a GP out of there as well, not bad for a city that's only been out of revolt for 7 turns.
Middlemarch is a pretty meh city that was taken to connect the south and north in the west. Still its role as support for the more important city to its south can't be underestimated.
Hogsmeade was the last spoil of the first Oxy war and in roughly a million years, will be the site of our National Epic, you can see why as even without access to a chunk of its tiles it is working 5 specs with an 8f surplus. Lewwyn and I had wanted to push for this city 40t ago but decided we probably couldn't hold it, given what we needed in the east. Fear of Mongolia has probably done more to stifle our game than anything else... other than the lack of rivers.
We'll finish the tour next turn with our last couple stub settlements and the new conquests from the 2nd Oxy War. Here's the demos, screw you Ichabod.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
(September 13th, 2014, 00:44)spacetyrantxenu Wrote: [Incredulous and sarcastic post about the interminable map whining redacted during preview edit]
Ichabod's post was pure win. Brutal and sublime at once. It's like he bottled a rainstorm on a sunny day to share with his favorite friends. Bravo!
Xenu, here's the deal: This is my thread. It is cathartic to whine about the map in your thread when you're playing a game, virtually every player I've ever seen does it. It doesn't mean I think you're an idiot or that you had it out to get me when you made the map, it means there are issues with the map that impact my chances of winning and I will mention them here as a way of letting off steam. If that really bothers you a lot - nothing is forcing you to read my updates.
That said, if you want a serious conversation with the issues on the map, I would be very happy to log in and take bare map shots and show you all the ways we very seriously got the shittiest slice of this map, non-Pindicator division. It doesn't take a genius to see the issues and I think a more thorough map review could have caught some of them. I think there's an over-reliance by more novice mapmakers on novice's tool which should be used as a guideline to point out egregious errors, not to say "THIS IS FAIR, DEAL WITH IT." You can criticize our scouting (though I'd tell you to blame RNGesus) or our expansion pace (really?) but given the sheer size of our empire, you can't possibly argue we don't have all the land we were expected to get at this point. And if you count riverside tiles and access to quality islands, we had the clear worst of the map. There are other issues, which I could get into if you really wanted, but those are the primary ones.
Beyond all that, the primary issue for this map is it is impossible to balance as 7 player cylindrical wrap map and we are all paying the price for what happened to Pindicator. Surrounding Pindicator is the biggest reason TBS and and Thoth have the largest empires by land area - not stellar play. TBS' play has also been stellar, which is why he is winning. But someone was always going to get boned and the player in the middle was the overwhelming favorite for that to happen. The second issue is the map is way too effing big. There's just no reason for 200+ land tiles per player, particularly on the lush maps FoR throws out. 125-150 would have made more a much better game. Here's the key point:
Neither of those issues are your fault, Xenu. They are Commodore's fault for proposing them and the fault of Myself, TBS, Thoth, Pindicator, Oxyphenbutazone and dtay for agreeing to them.
Anyway, all that said this hasn't been a bad game, just a poorly balanced one and though there certainly is my requisite amount of gloom in the thread I think I've done a much better job of having a good time with a lost cause here than I have in the past, which I feel pretty good about.
There is my map rant, enjoy.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
As I believe was mentioned above, Oxy lost his capital to TBS last turn. In response, he moved his remaining forces to Homeskillet for the last stand. This left Gurton Buster empty and, well, don't mind if I do.
The city came with a Colosseum and Courthouse, because of course it did. We debated for a good while whether to keep it or not, ultimately deciding to keep it. Commodore has been pillaging some of Oxy's tiles which were clearly going to end up ours and we found this annoying, so we named the replacement city Remus. If Commodore pillages any of these tiles next turn, I'm killing the offending units.
There's the situation in the area. Its not great - Homeskillet's location basically makes it painfully easy to fork all 3 cities of ours in the area. Of course, planting a stack on a fork tile means being catted, so he'll need a large stack to make it worth it. He's certainly capable of that, but I imagine he'll be pretty happy with his gains. All in all we took 9 cities off Oxy during the two wars, razing 3 and replanting 2 of those 3. The second war was a bit of a farce since everything we eventually ended up taking was empty with the exception of Lake Cocytus, which was garrisoned by a lone chariot. Oxy will be dead in a maximum of 3t. So long, friend. The turn pace will be much better without you.
I didn't get any other generic screenshots beyond that. Commodore captured dtay's capital last turn with a ginormous stack of Knights, Cats and Praetorian. Dtay retreated to cat another day, but didn't relocate units from Game and Watch or Samus (the two cities we would like to capture and raze, respectively, in a perfect world.) We're not committing much to the area because with the Oxy operation winding down, we have to be wary of an advance from TBS. Easy come, easy go.
Finishing up the tour of the empire...
Purgatory is a replacement for the Oxy city of Oil Can Guster, that we razed. It begs and borrows from Tartarus and Olympus but mostly it serves as a connector.
Kobol is the closest city to the uber moai city we didn't get to plant. It will be a pretty solid town at full flower, thanks to five lighthousable lakes.
Lake Coyctus is the capital city of Arctic Sheepland. It will build that Granary and then probably never anything else as it grows to provide ever better internal trade routes.
River Styx is the ever so slightly safer replacement for Oxy's city of Chaz Bono, which we razed. We'll get some key infra in there and then it will produce military for the rest of its days.
Remus, the city we captured this turn isn't much more than a bulwark. It will border both Commodore and TBS which makes its probability of eventually getting attacked probably the highest of any city in our empire.
For the demo truthers, btw, we're running an insane number of specialists which is why the CY and MFG numbers aren't that great... and we would win 100% of the games we played against either of you in TBS' position.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
Here's the turn after the game restart. We're starting to enter a brave new world - within 5t, it will just be Us, Thoth, Commodore and TBS. It will be interesting to see how that changes things - I believe there's a bit of a psychological dynamic with all of the laggards dead, it will make everyone else look a bit more vulnerable, particularly us since we're last on the scoreboard. Fortunately, we've managed to keep our power high and I think that will discourage Commodore and Thoth from thinking about taking potshots. Unfortunately, I don't think it will impact TBS at all.
Anyway, the big news of the turn really doesn't involve us. Oxy's last city was under threat (SPOILER ALERT: It has since fallen when TBS played.)
He renamed the city Thanks4TheFish, so I think he knew it was his last turn.
Anyway, obviously all those units are suddenly a worry for us. I think he's more likely to attack River Styx (not pictured, but basically north of the shot) than Remus, Middlemarch or Hogsmeade simply because he might like Oxy's capital not to be the border city between us. If he attacks over the next 2t or so, we're screwed and would probably retreat. If he gives us 5-10t, I think we can hold it. Rifles are a couple turns away and combined with copious amounts of Catapults, should mean interim safety. He's also burned most of his cats, which is good.
Since this was likely Oxy's last turn, I took a two shots of graphs with him still on it that tell the story of his game.
Basically, he never built any units while everyone else did. There was never a time the 3 main military powers didn't have significantly more soldiers than he did. Once Commodore militarized, his lack of units built stuck out like a sore thumb. That said, he got roughly 150t of the benefits of not spending hammers/not paying for an army before anyone called him on it! He should have been winning! What was he building besides Ball Courts? The way he played his game he should have been a tech leader and very high on the scoreboard but he never managed to use all that to his benefit - he oscillated between 4th and 5th on the scoreboard all game. I'd say I'll be interested to read the postgame to see what he was up to but even if he did report, I'm not really all that interested, truth be told. He just didn't play a very good game, more than anything due to pretty clearly not being interested in it as the game went on. Best of luck on the flipside, Scrabble Man.
In the not really involving us at all but still interesting in a rubbernecking sort of way theatre, there have been many moves afoot on the dtay front. Commodore advanced on the GLH city, dtay piled defenders in. I can tell from civstats that dtay lost a city this turn, perhaps it was this, but I sure hope dtay attacked Commodore's stack with HA/Cat stack. If not, there was literally no reason to have it. Commodore was on flat ground so it was the best possible chance. Of course there's no way dtay's surviving, but just shoving HAs and Cats into his city doesn't actually serve any practical purpose. I'll be interested to see what happened.
You can also see that Thoth recaptured the Mids city that has changed hands 3 or 4 times now. Thoth probably had a real shot at capturing dtay's old capital from Commodore but that was extremely unlikely to occur. Anyway, we're monitoring the situation but this doesn't affect us hugely.
Domestically, we planted Summerland at the filler location on the north coast this turn. It gets two previously unworked resources - deer and wines.
This seemed like a good time to evaluate the tech situation of the 4 remaining players (Note, I subconsciously x'd out TBS instead of dtay. Oops) :
Commodore
Up: Drama, Nationalism, Theology
Down: None (though we'll have Replaceable Parts on him @EOT.)
So yeah, TBS is killing us all. We're clearly 4th in tech but it is pretty close between Commodore, Thoth and Us. Thoth really has rebounded from midgame stagnation nicely.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
So I logged in to randomly get the lay of the land and...
As they say...
I honestly hate shit like this. Like, it really annoys me when I get bullied by the leader. Yes, I understand I cannot beat TBS in the game but I'm also currently the most able to slow him down. He doesn't even know how many cats we have at River Styx, we could have a ton there and just decimate his stack - he knows we're not Oxy and actual built siege. In fact, we've built a lot of it - we have 39 cats at the moment, 26 of which he doesn't have vision on.
Here's my chat with Noble right after I logged in. Its NSFW, but gives a pretty accurate impression of how I feel about this.
Quote: Gaspar: so
tbs wardec'd and asked for styx for peace NobleHelium: well
not really happy with that since
we would give up first ring culture Gaspar: well, i struggle to see any situation in which we would be happy with a wardec and a city demand? NobleHelium: well did he move units up
did he attack anything Gaspar: dunno just logged in saw it and msg'd you
declining and looking around now NobleHelium: can we look around
without declining
can we see what happened over with dtay Gaspar: i declined anyway NobleHelium: he's not eliminated, oddly Gaspar: i think likely
well this is one of those choices in the game moments
do we dedicate ourselves to making tbs' life suck as much as possible NobleHelium: well now that you've declined
what did he do Gaspar: or do we just passively continue on until thoth/commodore is ready to call the game
he didnt advance anything
I suppose this is the "if you'd like to continue on in a merry way, give me this and we'll call it even"
offer
if we decline I assume we see the hammer
i really don't like being bullied NobleHelium: well i don't really mind giving him styx but i don't really want to give him the first ring culture Gaspar: well
if we give him styx
we lose cocytus as well for sure NobleHelium: well obviously i am making that trade with the assumption that we'll be able to defend in 10t
not making that with the assumption that we'll lose cocytus in 10t
what's the culture situation in the south, is it still fucked? Gaspar: by remus/middlemarch you mean?
its correct NobleHelium: all right
so only remus can be taken this turn
did he kill our sentry
or anything else for that matter Gaspar: nope
like i said
i think this is the give peace a chance offer NobleHelium: well i'm just wondering
can we legitimately reoffer
and assume he will take it Gaspar: i assume if we reoffer he will take it NobleHelium: i'm not sure i'm comfortable with half our army exposed in remus with just a reoffer
even though yes i realize he could have attacked it already
what's the situation with dtay
did he lose samus
or game and watch
looks like samus
what happened with game and watch
is commodore afraid of us Gaspar: he razed samus NobleHelium: interesting
what units
does he have Gaspar: he can take g&w with injured 2-movers next turn NobleHelium: or rather where are they Gaspar: but thats all NobleHelium: we know what he has Gaspar: his knight stack is NW of the glh city NobleHelium: well now my interest is piqued Gaspar: well NobleHelium: is that the same tile they were on last turn Gaspar: keep in mind
commodore
played after tbs
so he saw the wardec NobleHelium: yes sure Gaspar: and doesn't know what it was about NobleHelium: the wardec was last turn Gaspar: if i'm commodore
i don't want to antagonize us
because i want us to go all in on tbs
can pick scraps later NobleHelium: well i'm not sure commodore the commodore would actually think that Gaspar: eh
i think in this case NobleHelium: as opposed to gaspar the commodore Gaspar: when it involves demonizing a leader
thats how commodore would think NobleHelium: lol Gaspar: right now NobleHelium: so what % tech do we need
to show 2t rifling Gaspar: im kind of all in
on demonizing tbs too
i really hate being bullied
id honestly rather
he just smacked us in the face NobleHelium: we bully people all the time Gaspar: rather than giving us the prisoners dilemma
yes NobleHelium: so what's the problem Gaspar: what does that have to do with anything?
i do lots of shit to other people
i don't like having done to me
this isn't bible school
golden rule doesn't apply NobleHelium: i think it applies even more
because this is just a game Gaspar: eh NobleHelium: and nothing ultimately matters
so i'm not going to go be a hypocrite for no real benefit Gaspar: i think part of it
is like
if tbs was mackoti
i can live with it
but hes just a player NobleHelium: lol Gaspar: maybe slightly better than me NobleHelium: i think if we played again we can definitely beat tbs
but what's done is done Gaspar: who took advantage of an exceptional set of circumstances
in his favor NobleHelium: and he is in this position legitimately Gaspar: if i was in his starting position NobleHelium: and he does have actual skill Gaspar: id be winning too
so fuck him
river styx
like you need one more city you stupid fuck
like
here's the deal really NobleHelium: lol Gaspar: of all the remaining players
we are the most able to make this painful
so why do you attack us
also
its fucking moronic
to do this on the last turn of our GA
if he waited one more turn
we're stuck without the option to swap to war civics NobleHelium: well if we decline
we will need to withdraw everything Gaspar: will we? NobleHelium: well we won't need to withdraw from styx yet Gaspar: he can't one move styx NobleHelium: next turn we would
we'll need to withdraw from remus Gaspar: im inclined to see what he brings
i mean
theres a piece here
like
he can take these cities off us
but he doesn't have a million cats anymore
hes going to take heavy losses NobleHelium: well we don't really know how many cats he has, but yes none near the front probnably Gaspar: maybe just let him have to draft his balls off again
to replenish his army NobleHelium: all right here's a question
so if we get into this existential fight with tbs
are you comfortable playing 2 months of war turns
only for commodore to win the game Gaspar: actually
if we made tbs lose
that would be so self-satisfying NobleHelium: okay
well i can't really argue with that
even though i don't agree Gaspar: i'll fucking play 7 years of war turns
like NobleHelium: i am definitely not signing up for 7 years of war turns Gaspar: lol
i'll get lewwyn's opinion
he's actually been in this situation a lot more than we have
i think
he'll say we should give him the city NobleHelium: what i think is NobleHelium: we get peace with tbs
then dow dtay
raze game and watch
replant it
then build rifles Gaspar: here's the thing
if we take this deal
im only taking it
if we can make him pay for this bad decision later
like
at the end of the day
i feel like this is a terrible decision on his part
and he should suffer for it NobleHelium: well
if someone else attacks him
i would not be adverse to piling on Gaspar: nobody else is attacking him
that's the point NobleHelium: well either someone else will attack him
or he'll attack us again
at which point we'll fight Gaspar: i mean NobleHelium: or he won't
and i'm not sure it really matters
that we lost styx Gaspar: not to go all godwin
but i feel a little bit like neville chamberlain here NobleHelium: my current feeling is that we're not really giving up anything important Gaspar: EXCEPT MY PRINCIPLES
So yeah, that's the situation here. Do I want to play long, painful, sloggy turns to stick to my guns or just mail the game in like 85% of RB would in this situation?
Basically its either:
or
What would YOU do, folks?
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
![[Image: kappa.png]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/183296643/Random%20Stuff/kappa.png)
![[Image: biblethump.png]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/183296643/Random%20Stuff/biblethump.png)
![[Image: bringit.gif]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/183296643/Random%20Stuff/bringit.gif)
![[Image: gtfo.gif]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/183296643/Random%20Stuff/gtfo.gif)